Origin

[leerock89]

For any of you who watch SG-1, no this is not a talk about the Ori or it's religion. Dam, that sounded lame... at any rate, to the real topic. The type of work I do allows me to think about whatever I want while I work, for it is tedious and repetitive and you don't have to be a genuis to do the work. So the other day I was mindlessly working and a thought came to me. It was an old thought that I had in my young years but it creeped back up and I started to think about it; There is NO original thought. I'm the type of persons that believes that we humans never created anything, whether it is a famous saying or a science. All we do is discover something that has been and is, for a very long time. So saying that, I thought that there is no such thing as original thought. Granted, others thought of an idea or theory or philosophy before, but even then that wasn't original, it is only slapped with "original" because the ones who first thought it up were able to write it down. Even now, with all of our history, we have nothing new to offer for it already is, we just need to discover it. So what does everything think of this? Talk to me...I'm bored...

[Russkie]

An interesting thesis.

Now that I think of it, I guess I could agree that man has not created, but only discovered... It makes sense. However, I believe God was the one who gave man the ability to discover, and therefore "create" things that the earth couldnt do itself. (i.e cars, computers, aircraft)

[Viduus]

Intrestingly enough, I struggle with the concept of originality quite a lot. I used to write short stories and considered being a creative writing major for a while, but I discovered that everything that I wrote could be looked at and said, oh, that's like the same thing x person wrote. For example, I tried to write a science fiction comedy, and after reading the first page or so I realized I just sound like I'm trying to copy Douglas Adams. Fantasy that I'd try to write would end up sounding like Terry Brooks. Very discouraging.

And then I realized, anything that someone tries to do will most likely have been though of or done by someone else already. It's just the way of the world. It's very much like that one episode of South Park where Butters is trying to be some evil guy and everything he thinks of his side kick tells him that "the Simpsons did it". Everything anyone does, you can take a look at and say "<blank> did it".

I haven't found a solution for this by the way. I've stopped writing stories because of it, I can't really stand looking at my own work and thinking that I'm somehow a fraud. Am I being overly critial and analyzing it too much? Perhaps, but... that's just the feeling that I have.

[a2ng0d]

Now here's a wake up call to the noggin.

I agree, but only to a certain extent. I think lee's statement that nothing is created but only discovered only works for naturally occuring phenomena, like the theory of relativity. all naturally occuring things in nature/science, like the equations and all, have always existed, yes. We know that Sir Isaac Newton did not invent gravity, it was always there. same with medicine. it is all yet to be discovered. but what about inventions? we all know that sketches cars and helicopters and submarines were first found in Da Vinci's books, but then again, doesn't that mean that he created them? they did not exist before that time. you cannot find any knowledge of automobiles or the like in the time of Marcus Aurelius or anytime before the Renaissance.
We know that Benjamin Franklin did not invent electricity, for electricity was always there, but can't we give Carl Djerassi the credit for the birth control pill?

[animex09]

i sort of agree. see, i also think than man hasn't created anything but discovered. I think we were givin all we needed by nature so we can 'discover' ways to work with it or manipulate it. So i guess you can say we haven't really created anything on our own, just combime things that were already there and turn them into something else. I guess some people would call this inventing something but I still believe it just the two original things put together giving the illusion that something was created. My point is, anything that humans create can be broken into its original substances that first created it. I'm not good at making myself clear.

[Sun Tzu]

hmm...... A very nihilistic perspective to look at this.

Let me put it this way, if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it make a sound? From a philisophical perspective absolutely not, no one is around to perceive it so it doesn't exist. And from a realists, the crash sends out waves that make up what we call sound, so yes.

Your looking at it from a realists perspective, Human beings have no original thought because everything we do has already been created. We don't build, we only harness and shape.

So let me start off my point by telling you a story. Yesterday a 18 year old kid won the jack pot at the local casino, his name was Jake. Jake has a wife and a 3 year old kid at home to feed, he receives no support from his parents and doesn't take government checks. He works as a waiter, and barely makes end meat. This jack pot will allow Jake to go back to school, get his college education, raise his child, and possibly give him a decent chance at getting a college education himself.

Until this moment Jake didn't exist for any of you, however by telling you all about him I have been able to create Jake in your minds. Jake exists now.

The basic underlying current here is the fact that perspective defines and creates our reality. And since our conscience is subjective instead of objective, we are able to craft the world around us. Say I saw a giant purple elephant in my garage. You would be completely unable to prove to me that there wasnt a giant purple elephant parked next to my car. Sure you could run out and look with your own eyes, groping around on the concrete for some tangible shred of my sanity. But you would still be unable to prove to me that there wasnt a elephant out there. That is because what you see, and what I see are two entirely different things. While you might perceive empty space, I might perceive the largest land mammal on earth. The elephant is real to me, even if its not to you.

And so since reality is subjective you will have to agree with me that everything that we do is original. You see, philosophy didn't exist until we said it exists, mathematics didn't exist until someone scrawled a couple numbers into the sand on a beach, and science didn't bother rearing its ugly head until we damn well told it to. We humans are the masters of our world, creating and shaping it as we see fit. Regardless of whether or not the information or idea is out there floating around, it doesn't have any tangible reality until we choose to acknowledge it.

Cogito ergo sum
I think, therefore I am.

[a2ng0d]

Kudos, Sun Tzu. That was a very good read.

[analogZero]

It's been said before that all knowledge is free. The only restraint is that you haven't found it yet. All the knowledge that could possibly be is right before you. It is the basis of thought, the lowest form of the mind and the most powerful seed in the universe. The pursuit of science is the pursuit of knowledge and the attempt of mankind to discover all that is to be discovered in the realm of what's real and has, does and will exist. Knowledge could be infinite for all we know, and as a result, the number of permutations and combinations that can be made in shaping what we will know in our lifetime is the act of infinite individuality. Knowledge can last in the minds of people over generations or be lost, and though you may not know the lifetime of a thought, that it may have once died and been lost to history, it may still yet rise again after many years and prove it's worth to you and how you perceive the world abound. It's how everyone learns, and though you may have accumulated a vast amount of knowledge in the time you've had, there is still yet thoughts beyond your imagination that will come...and yes, they've likely been thought of before, but they'll be elemental in your growth.

[Tovarishch]

Philosophy has always been of interest to me, and this makes my mind whirl with thoughts. It is an interesting idea; to say that any claim of originality is a lie is indeed of interest to me. I shall think on this some more.
Sun Tzu:
It should be kept in mind that while we may say that we are masters of our world, it does not mean that it is true. How could it be, when poverty and crime abound, and we are continually at the mercy of the elements? Perhaps the only reason that such problems exist is that we count them as such- a problem.
Any ideas?
-Tovarishch

[fejknick]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

hmm...... A very nihilistic perspective to look at this.

Let me put it this way, if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it make a sound? From a philisophical perspective absolutely not, no one is around to perceive it so it doesn't exist. And from a realists, the crash sends out waves that make up what we call sound, so yes.

Your looking at it from a realists perspective, Human beings have no original thought because everything we do has already been created. We don't build, we only harness and shape.

So let me start off my point by telling you a story. Yesterday a 18 year old kid won the jack pot at the local casino, his name was Jake. Jake has a wife and a 3 year old kid at home to feed, he receives no support from his parents and doesn't take government checks. He works as a waiter, and barely makes end meat. This jack pot will allow Jake to go back to school, get his college education, raise his child, and possibly give him a decent chance at getting a college education himself.

Until this moment Jake didn't exist for any of you, however by telling you all about him I have been able to create Jake in your minds. Jake exists now.

The basic underlying current here is the fact that perspective defines and creates our reality. And since our conscience is subjective instead of objective, we are able to craft the world around us. Say I saw a giant purple elephant in my garage. You would be completely unable to prove to me that there wasnt a giant purple elephant parked next to my car. Sure you could run out and look with your own eyes, groping around on the concrete for some tangible shred of my sanity. But you would still be unable to prove to me that there wasnt a elephant out there. That is because what you see, and what I see are two entirely different things. While you might perceive empty space, I might perceive the largest land mammal on earth. The elephant is real to me, even if its not to you.

And so since reality is subjective you will have to agree with me that everything that we do is original. You see, philosophy didn't exist until we said it exists, mathematics didn't exist until someone scrawled a couple numbers into the sand on a beach, and science didn't bother rearing its ugly head until we damn well told it to. We humans are the masters of our world, creating and shaping it as we see fit. Regardless of whether or not the information or idea is out there floating around, it doesn't have any tangible reality until we choose to acknowledge it.

Cogito ergo sum
I think, therefore I am.

Thats like saying there is no world outside when you close your eyes and go to sleep. The world don't pause, it don't stop. It keeps spinning, no matter what you think or do. Sure we live in a holographical world and that we change reality with our minds. BUT before us someone had to think about the big-bang to make it happen, witch would result in a god theory. And then we don't have control over reality anymore and can therefore not call ourselves masters of our minds. Someone thought about us before we did.

Im not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that thinking outside the box is so inside the box.