Evolutionism or Creationism

[saprintha]

Originally Posted by wi_sam

What if !! what if !! what if !!

Yes "what if" is always the question. "what if this, what if that." Human minds will never be satisfied of knowledge. We would always want more and more. but i personally believe in a bit of both. yes there are scientific evidence of evolution, but there are parts of evolution that can't be explained. Like they just happened unexpectedly. For me, when it comes to those things, i believe it's creationism. I may not know myself what those events may be, because i don't really pay attention to those kind of things, but i know that there are events like that.

[EvilWolf]

Originally Posted by soulten

And what is childish?
I would like to have a real debate but you people seem more interested in voicing opinions on other members than supporting your beliefs. why don't you try to help this debate?

*probably be closing this soon.

I felt my points were valid, I like real debates as well... But everyone is going to end up arguing in the end because even though people may have all the proof in the world, For those of you that don't believe in God it's because you can't see him... he isn't tangible... But there is also another side to this coin that most people try to ignore or deny.., this also means that you can't prove it wrong... since you... DON'T know... the conversation would go in circles endlessly... REAL debates are about stuff that is tangible... and that ARE provable... It will probably take millenia for humans to figure out the truth about God... It isn't logical to call this a REAL debate since none of us will know the truth in our lifetimes...

[leerock89]

Ya, this thread started out interestingly enough and then degraded to a lot of arguing. Mayhaps it is because of the lack of perspective from all parties to all parties.

[soulten]

Originally Posted by EvilWolf

I felt my points were valid, I like real debates as well... But everyone is going to end up arguing in the end because even though people may have all the proof in the world, For those of you that don't believe in God it's because you can't see him... he isn't tangible... But there is also another side to this coin that most people try to ignore or deny.., this also means that you can't prove it wrong... since you... DON'T know... the conversation would go in circles endlessly... REAL debates are about stuff that is tangible... and that ARE provable... It will probably take millenia for humans to figure out the truth about God... It isn't logical to call this a REAL debate since none of us will know the truth in our lifetimes...

Who says this so-called god is male?

What is real? This is a very vague term. What you consider to be a real debate may be people in suits talking about "how Person A did this to place A and was it good or bad"(best example I got atm) While mine could be simply people merely staying on topic of a question and trying to compare opinions and trying to enlighten others with their idea.

Not all debates are on tangible objects, more then non it is about an idea. Not are they necessarily provable. Like let's say a debate on whether or not America would be better communistic. How could you prove that? The best you could do is compare it to Russia but even then you are make wild accusations which can easily disproved/destroyed.

Nor would I call your little hissy-fit on me using the word "real", when I could go easily change it to nice, logical at all to this so-called "debate".

Now to get on more topic.

So you can see god eh?

Can you prove your right? Cause I can, we share 99.8(or 98)% of our DNA with simians.

How do you know? Can you enlighten me please?

[analogZero]

Part 1: don't take offense, and move on when you're done.
God is everything, and nothing at the same time. To believe he exists you'd need to believe the evidence he leaves you. Just because things don't happen exactly as stated, word for word in one of many interpreted books of "God's word" doesn't make his work irrefutable.
The problem with this debate is that it sells one story of creation, when in fact there are hundreds to be had. This is a rather arrogant form of pressure, and it sells God as an entity pertaining to one set of beliefs. Now there are countless religions giving praise to a greater power, but they take the unnecessary step of going beyond this point to make arguments. They attach stories, and ideals, and labels, and humanly associations to it rather than acknowledging that God is God. It is not something that writes books, it is the book, the writer, the ink, the intention, the perception as much as it is the person who knows nothing of God. It is the complexity of the universe you'll never be able to comprehend, the vast change and difference between rock and water, air and plant, man and fish. It is an indefinite mathematical equation with and infinite solution. It is the simplicity of a particle that makes it's way into your body, leaves your body and enters another. You and your existence are unable to affect it's ability. It doesn't possess emotion, it doesn't possess conscience, it doesn't possess life, for it is all these things and more and none.

now, do you think if God had something to say, that you'd be able to understand it? God would have to seriously dumb itself down in order to make the most intelligent person to exist scratch his head in a vain attempt to comprehend it's unimaginable accuracy and brilliance.


Part 2: The concept of change.
Consider yourself a defect. Every time something is born it pertains to blueprints of it's creator while making modifications to account for the duality that is it's creator (parents). You hold true to the form of your species while making unwarranted adjustments as a result of your creation. We're not all the same person after all.
Now, evolution is essentially adaptation. You're in an environment that's hot, and your body develops a tan to reduce the effects of damage to vital tissues effected by the climate. This is evolution on a small scale. Time and stimuli are the key factors to evolution it seems, It's not as though monkeys have a bald child one day, with impeccable posture and enhanced cognitive abilities. Something like that would be ridiculous.
Take yourself as an example. Every day you learn something new, right? You take that knowledge with you and build on new knowledge as you go along until one day, you're smart! That is to say you're smarter than you were when you were a child. You've utilized the information you've gathered to improve upon yourself. This is something you can take credit for, as you did the work, you interpreted the information in a manner that would benefit you into a stronger, more stable position. This is what evolution does.
All life is comprised of genetic information, it's what makes it grow into what it is (regardless of whether you believe it will change down the road or not). Through it's offspring genetic information is manipulated to produce a replica with minute differences (appearances, certain colours, fertility, size, etc.). These differences can be interpreted as improvements as much as they can be interpreted as defects or mutations. Mother nature's a mad scientist.
The key to understanding evolution is that over vast amounts of time, certain stimuli effect these genetic alterations. If the stimulus is abundant, then the evolution takes on a faster pace, like many species on the Galápagos Islands or in the rain forests. Again this doesn't mean that lizards grow shells at will so they can go for a swim and not be eaten by a shark. These are very small scale representations of the mechanics of evolution.


Part 3: The George Lucas Effect, aka. blue and red make purple.
God created the universe, therefore God created it's design. Scientist pursue knowledge to unlock God's design. It's the greatest puzzle ever built, and God made it for you to examine and appreciate. God may have provided a guide book to his puzzle, but did he give you the full answer? perhaps. At least he gave you a small handful of vague guidelines by which to navigate his maze. Did evolution start with a small spark of life? perhaps. Perhaps God took an alternate route to what was written. Perhaps he decided to start his story in the middle, as did George Lucas with Star Wars, and he's yet to write a retarded beginning that is filled with ridiculous concepts and retarded crap that makes you question why he would've done something like that, for crying out loud.
If it's illogical to believe a book, whose original copy no longer exists, and of a God that you can't experience in your form, than it's equally as illogical to believe that abstract life forms have made minute changes over billions of years into the beings we are today. Regardless of your view, you must either accept both, or deny both. God is science, after all.

[xXWENWENXx]

What are they?><

[soulten]

But why is there a god? Why can't things have JUST HAPPENED? I get how god/s where used as excuses to explain the strange/different. But in this day and age of science why must we still believe god is/was out there and started everything? Many people use god as a safety blanket, but still many things can be proved with science and many can't. Is it the fear of the after life or just life in general?(I do like one creation myth but I just need to find it.)Why can't it just be gases formed, big bang, time passed, life formed. Why does something always have to start it in most case?

[EvilWolf]

Originally Posted by soulten

Who says this so-called god is male?
Nor would I call your little hissy-fit on me using the word "real", when I could go easily change it to nice, logical at all to this so-called "debate".
Now to get on more topic.

So you can see god eh?

Can you prove your right? Cause I can, we share 99.8(or 98)% of our DNA with simians.

How do you know? Can you enlighten me please?

I made the mistake of saying "him" I apologise... I don't think we can characterize God as being a female or a male...

I guess you take offence easy... I was MERELY stating that This is hardly a debate that would come to a conclusive end... I wasn't throwing a hissy fit... a hissy fit would be if I started cursing at you for an entire post...

I never said I could see God... no one can see God... that was my point... while you may have proof that Humans evolved from apes that's all excellent... but if you read my first post on this thread I said that God could still very well be responsible for evolution...

My OVERALL point was that no one can see God... and by that logic you can't prove he exists or prove that he doesn't exist... it's called having faith... it is difficult to debate when the subject is faith...

Originally Posted by soulten

Is it the fear of the after life or just life in general?

I believe religion was created because people didn't want to accept the notion that after you die it's all over... I don't mean to sound brash or blunt here but think about it... If you believe in a religion and you happen to be right you go to where ever you're Heaven or greater plane of existence are... but if you are an atheist and you're right... nothing happens... you die and ... well... nothing...

[soulten]

Originally Posted by EvilWolf

I guess you take offence easy... I was MERELY stating that This is hardly a debate that would come to a conclusive end... I wasn't throwing a hissy fit... a hissy fit would be if I started cursing at you for an entire post...

I never said I could see God... no one can see God... that was my point... while you may have proof that Humans evolved from apes that's all excellent... but if you read my first post on this thread I said that God could still very well be responsible for evolution...

My OVERALL point was that no one can see God... and by that logic you can't prove he exists or prove that he doesn't exist... it's called having faith... it is difficult to debate when the subject is faith...

I'm not taking offense I just dislike how my saying is being "mauled" because of some minor wording. I just merely want to get my point across. If that means from now one I am going to have to type paragraph responses to everything so my point is not misinterpreted so be it. Well if we stepped back I doubt this could even be considered a debate when it is merely a bunch of opinions based on who you are. Hissy fit was just the best word I could use to describe your... I guess just your dislike of the word real?

And sorry to say but this sentence "For those of you that don't believe in God it's because you can't see him" sounds like you and how I interpenetrated it as you don't believe because you can't see. The wording could have been better there.

Just wondering have you read the about the flying spaghetti monster? Because you argument is very similar to what is used to explain it.

[EvilWolf]

Nope... never read the flying spaghetti monster =\

Anyway I'm just stepping away from this conversation... it's only going to go in circles... there is no point in me debating this subject... It's not like anyone is going to change anyone elses opinions about the subject... and I'm sorry I made you think I was arguing the meaning of the word real with you... I guess I couldn't find a better way to get the points I stated in that post across...

EDIT: I guess my overall point was MOST debates are on subjects that have conclusive answers... like... "Why did John run the red light?" ... or... subjects in science or other subjects... Like in physics "Why does the ball fall when it's pushed off the desk?" stuff like that, that people can actually answer... questions that you can find ALL the variables to...