Gay Marriage

[fejknick]

Originally Posted by atomsk

thats nice buuuuut i wasnt reffering to you or anyone in general. it seems everyone against gay marrige is a whiney little christian

Amen.

(If you don't see the irony then you FAIL)

[lee matsu]

ey ..if you like to eat eat ...be eaten ..if you like ..pain up ur anisssssssssss ey pain is ..it hurts shit .... but than again people would say ..."hey matsu is not all bout the sex ...perve''' sure is not "wink wink " ...poof runs real fast>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an he's gone

[soulten]

Originally Posted by lee matsu

ey ..if you like to eat eat ...be eaten ..if you like ..pain up ur anisssssssssss ey pain is ..it hurts shit .... but than again people would say ..."hey matsu is not all bout the sex ...perve''' sure is not "wink wink " ...proof runs real fast>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an he's gone

How would you know this?
Notice the red? Proof runs fast.....and he's gone
EVERYBODY COME LOOK!!!
Lee matsu just came out of the closet!

[fejknick]

Originally Posted by soulten

How would you know this?
Notice the red? Proof runs fast.....and he's gone
EVERYBODY COME LOOK!!!
Lee matsu just came out of the closet!

*Laughs and points finger at Lee matsu.*

[Zaraki]

Originally Posted by atomsk

thats nice buuuuut i wasnt reffering to you or anyone in general. it seems everyone against gay marrige is a whiney little christian

actually i've met people who are atheist or a different religion and are against it so we whiney little christians aren't the only ones. ;) besides aren't you being whiney what others opinion is of gay marriage.

Originally Posted by hsb39

The only part there that I can disagree with is that I haven't found the part (and no one has shown me) in the Bible where it states that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

here's some verses sorry for them being long.

"And the Lord God said, 'It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him'" (Gen. 2:18).
"Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. And Adam said:

'This is now bone of my bone
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.'

Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." (Gen. 2:22-24)
Adam received his wife as a gift from God. In a sense it is still true that a man receives his wife from God. Solomon says:


"Houses and riches are an inheritance from fathers,
But a prudent wife is from the Lord" (Proverbs 19:14).
We also see that marriage is good. Solomon says in another place:


"He who finds a wife finds a good thing,
And obtains favour from the Lord" (Proverbs 18:22).
We also see how strong the marriage bond is, so strong that they are no longer two but are melted together as one flesh.

This bond is so strong that it is broken only by death. As long as they live they are one together. They may not separate. Jesus quoted this passage when He was asked about marriage:


"The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, 'Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?' And He answered and said to them, 'Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning "made them male and female," and said, "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh"? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.' They said to Him, 'Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?' He said to them, 'Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery'" (Mat. 19:3-9).


In this passage in Genesis we also see how dependent man and woman are on each other. They need each other. Paul says:


"Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord. For as the woman was from the man, even so the man also is through the woman; but all things are from God" (1 Cor. 11:11,12).
Marriage is an institution of God and is a continuation of His work of creation. Sexual desires are God-given. We should view our manliness or womanliness as a gift from God which we receive with thankfulness and strive to keep holy and pure in accordance with His instructions.

If God had intended the human race to be fulfilled through both heterosexual and homosexual marriage, He would have designed our bodies to allow reproduction through both means and made both means of sexual intercourse healthy and natural. Homosexual anal intercourse carries a high risk of disease, this is recognized in Scripture where gay men are said to receive in their bodies the due penalty for their error (Romans 1:27).

and yes i know their are verses in here that talks about divorce and yes i know both even if you are straight and marry the opposite they are also at risk as well as a homosexual so don't even start on that one.

and whoever responded to my post about the a sexual. yeah i know gay ppl can adopt and i know lesbians when they want kids will go to a hospital to how can i say this w/o being even more weird...collect sperm from any of the sperm donors. i would post more but i have to go to school.

[lee matsu]

Originally Posted by soulten

How would you know this?
Notice the red? Proof runs fast.....and he's gone
EVERYBODY COME LOOK!!!
Lee matsu just came out of the closet!

ok ok ..dis is not fucken funny but since your an ..staff guy or herman doesn't mean to ride on me ..second you delete my post cus you say ..i make no sense ......dis website sux cus people like you man ..u fagots jus want to hear what u like an delete what u don't ..... ..(s*gh)

[alsharid]

I am 100% against, and there is not a single person that can convince me not to be against it.

Lazy People don't bother reading it all, for it is too long lol
Something I found from readislam.com.


Question: "I am a happy, young gay man, and I am at university studying chemistry. What I want to know is why homosexuals are regarded to be sinners and are to be murdered. How can I look at another Muslim, knowing that they have been taught that I am to be slaughtered? I know a lot of other religions practice this too. If Islam is supposed to be a peaceful religion, then why are homophobic murders carried out in the name of Islam?"

- Thomas - United Kingdom

Answer: "Salam, Thomas.

Thank you for writing to the Ask About Islam section and for your question. Here are some thoughts for your consideration.

First, we appreciate your interest in learning more about Islam's stance on homosexuality. You have asked a two part question related to homosexuality, namely why it is considered a sin and why homosexuals are, in your own words, "to be murdered."

To begin with, you should know that Muslims believe in Allah as the One and Only Creator of all that exists and therefore accept that Allah has full knowledge of His creation. Allah Most High knows about every aspect of human life and has knowledge of even the inner, unexpressed thoughts of human beings.

Therefore, in Islam, the understanding is that Allah Most High has created mankind from a male and a female, the first human pair being Adam and Eve. All subsequent generations to emerge from Adam and Eve have been possible because of the natural reproductive process, that is, the union of a male and a female. In the context of society, even this union between a male and a female is regulated, and according to Islam, should not exist outside of the institution of marriage.

As humans were created of two sexes to be able to reproduce sexually (as opposed to asexually as some lower creatures do), what is considered most unnatural in Islam is the existance of non-platonic relationships (i.e., involving sexual attraction) of men to men and women to women. What is acceptable, of course, is platonic, entirely non-sexual, love expressed by men to men and by women to women in a brotherly and sisterly manner.

This does not mean, however, that Islam turns a blind eye to the existence of homosexuality. In fact, the Qur'an does not deny that some men and women might be inclined towards homosexual and lesbian behavior, but it is quite clear from Islamic teachings that when and if such behavior becomes manifest, it has to be stopped because it is both unnatural and destructive to the social fabric.

We are reminded for example in the Qur'an of the statement of Prophet Lot (peace be upon him) who found his people engaged in homosexuality and said what means:

*{And Lot! (Remember) when he said unto his folk: "Lo! ye commit lewdness such as no creature did before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway and practice wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth."}* (Al-`Ankabut 29:28-29)

In another verse in the Qur'an, Prophet Lot (peace be upon him) also said to them:

*{Of all the creatures of the world, will you approach males, and leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, you are a people transgressing (all limits)!}* (Ash-Shu`araa' 26:165-166)

So, the Qur'an in general regards homosexuality as unnatural and informs us that it was not known among the creation before the people of Lot practiced it. Prophet Lot (peace be upon him) attempted to advise his people to refrain from this unnatural behavior lest they incur the wrath of God.

As for the second part of your question, from the first instance of homosexual behavior (with the people of Lot), such behavior has been a punishable offense. It is clear that when the people who engaged in homosexual behavior taunted Prophet Lot (peace be upon him) to bring on the punishment, Allah punished them.

As we read in the Qur'an, Allah states what means:

*{and We rained on them a rain of torment. And how evil was the rain of those who had been warned}* (Ash-Shu`ara' 26:173).

Essentially, Allah is Merciful and offers great hope to His followers to repent and to seek His forgiveness; but for those who sin and flaunt their sins, this episode with the people of Lot (peace be upon him) makes it clear to us that there is no tolerance.

As to the actual means of punishment, there are different opinions among Muslim scholars. There is definitely no consensus that the punishment is death. However, it is important to know that the basis upon which some scholars have founded their opinions is their comparison between the punishment for fornication (which can only be punishable if there are four witnesses to the act itself) and homosexuality, as both acts despite their differences, are also similar. As marriage in Islam — the only possibility for sexual relations — can only be between a man and woman, any homosexual behavior will immediately be a form of fornication anyway.

"Muslim jurists hold different opinions for this abominable practice. Should it be the same as the punishment for fornication, or should both the active and passive participants be put to death? While such punishments may seem cruel, they have been suggested to maintain the purity of the Islamic society and to keep it clean of perverted elements." To read the whole fatwa click Here.

The reason for the punishment, however, is also important to understand. Just as fornication can destroy the fabric of society by creating social problems such as sexually transmitted diseases, emotional and psychological stress, the breakup of the family, unwanted pregnancies and illegitimate children, homosexuality is seen in the same light. As Islam is both an individual and a communal worldview and way of life, the preservation of the social order that God has deemed to be best for humanity plays an essential role in the social laws laid down in the Qur'an and by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Islam is a peaceful, comprehensive, universal, and timeless religion whose teachings are a direct revelation from the Creator Himself. Therefore, the fact because Islamic teachings dictate that homosexuality is a sin and must be punished does not make Islam any less peaceful. Rather, this particular teaching, as we have mentioned above, aims to protect society and to keep it from utter moral deterioration.

You have nothing to fear, though. Muslims do not go around wanting to punish homosexuals! On the contrary, they do not have the right to do so, according to Islam. Only an Islamic government has the right to do so and only in the case of a confession or the testimony of four witnesses as mentioned. Also, the law only applies to Muslim citizens not to non-Muslims.

As for what a non-homosexual Muslim would think of a homosexual when they meet, the typical upright Muslim should feel pity and mercy towards his homosexual friend. He should only dream of having his friend come back to what Muslims regard as the "heaven of normality" and practice a "natural" happy life accepted and respected by the societies and their very selves.

The maximum a Muslim should do is to invite his homosexual friend to what the Muslim regards as the right path. A Muslim would regard this as being his duty; he would believe he owes friendship that much. He might preach to him a bit, but that's it! No killing."

- Abdullah Abdur Rahman

[Dolly]

Wow, and I thought "my" posts were long. But in all seriousness, thanks for sharing that. The views of Islam in detail are pretty interesting.

[hsb39]

Originally Posted by fejknick

The bibles answer to anything that it cant explain: its the devils work. Or its god, testing our fate. Id say fuck you god and suck this thing between my legs you gave me.
I have read the entire bible, new and old. Thats why i know its a bunch of bullshit. I don't talk about things if i don't know what I'm talking about.

If you have read the bible then you would know that its a bunch of bullshit. And an other point is: last sunday ken drank 7 beers. In 4 weeks he has jumped from that to 16 beers. Now you think about the fact that the bible was written 60 years after jesus so called crucifixion.

And I'm not against you hsb39, you're a good guy. ^^
This is just a subject that makes me so damn angry. How people can believe anything that a person in power tells them. And I'm not saying i don't believe in a god. I just don't believe in a god that the bible describes. I believe in spirituality and unity. And that you create the future yourself. But that mixed with physics and logical thinking.

Ohh, and why does the pope have his own city and inf. money while there are children starving to death in this world? If he was the number one in christianity/bible-people, wouldn't he give that money to those children? He would live in a hut if he had to. And 2000 years ago the crux was a symbol of torture, today its a religious symbol.

There are some parts that I find to be BS as well, particularly the Job bit and natural disasters.

But the part that explains at least half of it is human free will. The Bible says that we were given it, meaning that evil people can do what we want. While God (assuming that It exists) could make a perfect world, it would be better otherwise as we all would just be mind slaves, the imperfect world with free will is better than a perfect world without it.

@Zaraki: I'll try to generally cover your points.

Saying that marriage is all about reproduction would imply that infertile people should not get married, also remember about adoption. And I think that currently the world does not need to reproduce that much, it says that they were meant to reproduce together, but it does not say that man and man and woman and woman could not be together. And if you want to say otherwise, first read the link that I put up earlier in the thread going over the six Bible verses that actually "adress" homosexuality.

Many of those verses say things that are bad about divorce, that it shouldn't be allowed. I need to know if you think that divorce is a sin before I continue on that point.

On to the disease point. There is actually only slightly more risk of disease which is irrelavent now due to condoms. Also, this (along with many of the other verses) would also condemn non-conventional sex between heterosexual couples, yet again, I need to get your opinion on this.

To go back to the discussion, religious points should still be moot. I can (sort of) understand churches not allowing gay marriages, but I don't get why gay people of other religions should be disallowed of something because of something that they don't believe in. Bringing back separation of church and state here.

To bring a new point in, gay marriage would actually lower the rate of gay sex (ask any married person), and increase the rate of safe gay sex.

[Nightmare]

Originally Posted by Zaraki

actually i've met people who are atheist or a different religion and are against it so we whiney little christians aren't the only ones. ;) besides aren't you being whiney what others opinion is of gay marriage.



here's some verses sorry for them being long.

"And the Lord God said, 'It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him'" (Gen. 2:18).
"Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. And Adam said:

'This is now bone of my bone
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.'

Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." (Gen. 2:22-24)
Adam received his wife as a gift from God. In a sense it is still true that a man receives his wife from God. Solomon says:


"Houses and riches are an inheritance from fathers,
But a prudent wife is from the Lord" (Proverbs 19:14).
We also see that marriage is good. Solomon says in another place:


"He who finds a wife finds a good thing,
And obtains favour from the Lord" (Proverbs 18:22).
We also see how strong the marriage bond is, so strong that they are no longer two but are melted together as one flesh.

This bond is so strong that it is broken only by death. As long as they live they are one together. They may not separate. Jesus quoted this passage when He was asked about marriage:


"The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, 'Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?' And He answered and said to them, 'Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning "made them male and female," and said, "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh"? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.' They said to Him, 'Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?' He said to them, 'Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery'" (Mat. 19:3-9).


In this passage in Genesis we also see how dependent man and woman are on each other. They need each other. Paul says:


"Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord. For as the woman was from the man, even so the man also is through the woman; but all things are from God" (1 Cor. 11:11,12).
Marriage is an institution of God and is a continuation of His work of creation. Sexual desires are God-given. We should view our manliness or womanliness as a gift from God which we receive with thankfulness and strive to keep holy and pure in accordance with His instructions.

If God had intended the human race to be fulfilled through both heterosexual and homosexual marriage, He would have designed our bodies to allow reproduction through both means and made both means of sexual intercourse healthy and natural. Homosexual anal intercourse carries a high risk of disease, this is recognized in Scripture where gay men are said to receive in their bodies the due penalty for their error (Romans 1:27).

and yes i know their are verses in here that talks about divorce and yes i know both even if you are straight and marry the opposite they are also at risk as well as a homosexual so don't even start on that one.

and whoever responded to my post about the a sexual. yeah i know gay ppl can adopt and i know lesbians when they want kids will go to a hospital to how can i say this w/o being even more weird...collect sperm from any of the sperm donors. i would post more but i have to go to school.

O.K. this it a grate example of why no one has ever finished the bible. just so you know this verse doesn't say two men shouldn't marry, "It is not good that man should be alone... Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife" Never says women wife just wife. Who says a man can't be a wife?