obama or mcCain

[justblazze]

i think obama should wen man it is time for a black person lol::D::mad:

[bluedragon]

i think ure right right now we need that change.

[Orangeii]

all because hes black? well maybe u should look more into him.. hear his speeches..

[Holly-Sama]

Sorry, but I don't like being referred to as a stupid American. I'm voting McCain. Change is not always for the better.

[kitty-kat]

i think neither...cause either way im screwed...theyll end up being my boss -_-

[Ryuuzaki]

Obama is a douche, it's a simple as that. I don't like McCain that much either, but he's better then Obama.

Btw, there is already a thread just like this.

[Koopaking]

I vote for Political Apathy Party.

[kitty-kat]

scratch that...i vote for Walter!!!

[HOKAGE]

ok yea obama

[analogZero]

I vote that you guys are screwed regardless. later foreigners!

[Holly-Sama]

I vote that you guys are screwed regardless. later foreigners!

Oh, how very nice.

:3

[Nina-chan]

*sigh* I'm voting McCain. I, also, do not think that someone who calls America stupid should be the leader of said country.

[soulten]

I can't vote, but if I could I wouldn't. Cause in the end it is all riged and none of the votes mean anything, they just give us a false sense of freedom.

[Nina-chan]

A lot of people feel like that, but I believe one vote really can make a difference. =]

[soulten]

A lot of people feel like that, but I believe one vote really can make a difference. =]

Did you not get my point? I know one vote could make a difference, it has before, but the election is rigged so all voting is usless in general.

[lemonek]

its that going to make a difference?

[Dolly]

Did you not get my point? I know one vote could make a difference, it has before, but the election is rigged so all voting is usless in general.

There's millions who would disagree, Soulten.

I believe the other thread was about the VP pick, but carried into an Obama/McCain discussion.

If this is the case, this is not a copy thread, it's simply a suitable title.

Blaze, it's people like you that give Obama supporters a bad name. A presidential candidate shouldn't be decided on race, ethnicity, or even age. It's time to be a little mature, and the same coin applies to those who would be against Obama for above reasons.

In relevance to the thread, I'll note that I'm an Obama supporter. Regardless, it's sure to be a very tight race.

[Silverleon]

*sigh* I'm voting McCain. I, also, do not think that someone who calls America stupid should be the leader of said country.

So what, if its true, why shouldn't he?
Besides, i think Obama is more suited for the job, for example, he had the highest grades of his class, while McCain had some of the lowest of his, proving that Obama is smarter than McCain.
And besides, McCain is always agreeing with Bush, so do you really wanna
vote for someone who thinks like Bush, also known as one of the worst presidents of the U.S.?
Well, that's my opinion, and believe what you want, but there's a reason why Obama is the top candidate now.

[Holly-Sama]

So what, if its true, why shouldn't he?
Besides, i think Obama is more suited for the job, for example, he had the highest grades of his class, while McCain had some of the lowest of his, proving that Obama is smarter than McCain.
And besides, McCain is always agreeing with Bush, so do you really wanna
vote for someone who thinks like Bush, also known as one of the worst presidents of the U.S.?
Well, that's my opinion, and believe what you want, but there's a reason why Obama is the top candidate now.

Grades don't mean anything. They don't prove how smart someone is. I would rather have a president who has sacrificed years of his life for America than someone who is focused on being a big celebrity with a dumb song about how sexy they are. I don't really care for either one, but I'll vote against Obama even if that means I have to vote for McCain.

[Dolly]

Grades don't mean anything. They don't prove how smart someone is. I would rather have a president who has sacrificed years of his life for America than someone who is focused on being a big celebrity with a dumb song about how sexy they are. I don't really care for either one, but I'll vote against Obama even if that means I have to vote for McCain.

I agree with the grades. Book smarts aren't prime matters for a president.

But it's pretty stupid to round up Obama as someone who is focused on being a big celebrity with "a dumb song about how sexy they are."

So what if Obama isn't a war veteran? Does that make him any less qualified for the job?

[Holly-Sama]

I agree with the grades. Book smarts aren't prime matters for a president.

But it's pretty stupid to round up Obama as someone who is focused on being a big celebrity with "a dumb song about how sexy they are."

So what if Obama isn't a war veteran? Does that make him any less qualified for the job?

You missed my point.The only thing that I have ever heard from Obama's mouth are insults. He insults the United States, the citizens, and everyone else who opposes him. That's why I don't like him. Sure, I know candidates will say negative things about their opponents, but he takes it to the extreme.

And how is that stupid? Most people that I know who are voting for him are only doing it because he's 'hot'. And, some probably think it's trendy.

[Dolly]

You missed my point.The only thing that I have ever heard from Obama's mouth are insults. He insults the United States, the citizens, and everyone else who opposes him. That's why I don't like him. Sure, I know candidates will say negative things about their opponents, but he takes it to the extreme.

And how is that stupid? Most people that I know who are voting for him are only doing it because he's 'hot'. And, some probably think it's trendy.

Listen to yourself, it's utter nonsense to think those ridiculous evaluations of a person could make it to be a PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE with only that. You're quite close-minded here, you have to see that.

[Silverleon]

I agree with the grades. Book smarts aren't prime matters for a president.

But it's pretty stupid to round up Obama as someone who is focused on being a big celebrity with "a dumb song about how sexy they are."

So what if Obama isn't a war veteran? Does that make him any less qualified for the job?

Exactly, McCain fought in a war, so what, that's not going to make him a better president, and i've seen he uses that veteran thing in a lot of his speeches, i mean seriously, you could have fought in 100 wars, that doesn't mean that you're more qualified to run a country.
The grades thing was just an example. And seriously, do you want someone looks up to Bush as a president?!

[Holly-Sama]

Exactly, McCain fought in a war, so what, that's not going to make him a better president, and i've seen he uses that veteran thing in a lot of his speeches, i mean seriously, you could have fought in 100 wars, that doesn't mean that you're more qualified to run a country.
The grades thing was just an example. And seriously, do you want someone looks up to Bush as a president?!

I never said that it would make him a better president. I meant that I am more willing to support him. And again, I said that I would vote for McCain even though I don't very much care for him because my disgust for Obama is greater. You should read what I type rather than put words in my mouth like that. It's very unbecoming of you.

[Mugen]

My vote is on Obama-but I'm not an American.

[Holly-Sama]

Listen to yourself, it's utter nonsense to think those ridiculous evaluations of a person could make it to be a PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE with only that. You're quite close-minded here, you have to see that.

I don't have to see anything, mind you. That is your opinion, and your opinion alone. I believe what I believe, and you believe what you believe. I happen to be more of an open-minded person than you think.

And don't tell me that this "nonsense" isn't possible. He's silver-tongued.

[Nina-chan]

Grades don't mean anything. They don't prove how smart someone is. I would rather have a president who has sacrificed years of his life for America than someone who is focused on being a big celebrity with a dumb song about how sexy they are. I don't really care for either one, but I'll vote against Obama even if that means I have to vote for McCain.

^^; Eh, guys, she really isn't saying anything bad. It's her opinion.
Likewise, you all have your own opinions, no one is right or wrong, and no one can change anyone else's mind. Someone's observations of their peers about their voting preferences don't make them "close-minded", and likewise, someone who doesn't want someone who mirrors Bush in office is equally entitled to their personal opinion.

[Eclair35]

I Think Obama

[Dolly]

I'm quite aware of the views of others, but you can't help but wonder if something is a bit queer if someone becomes a presidential candidate by only being a celebrity.

Our country "really" isn't that fickle.


Don't get me wrong, I understand that this is your view, but if I didn't have an ounce of respect for you I would leave a statement like that alone. But I'll argue in hopes an understanding, even a slim one, can be reached.

[quietchat]

Okay, lemme just explain somthing.

THIS IS ****ING POLITICS. EVERYBODY WILL LIE, IT'S A MATTER OF VOTES.

Obama lies, sure. I don't deny that. But McCain lies just as much, so don't vote based on who's more honest. Vote on their plans, vote on wether you think they can actually run the country.

Edit: Oh yeah, and everyone mudslings too. Find me someone that doesn't, then I'll be shocked.

[Holly-Sama]

No one can really say for sure how things really work in the political world. I mean, I don't believe the Government works in the same fashion as we have been taught in school.

I'm just real weary about both candidates. I personally don't think either one will be that great. We'll just have to wait it out and see.

And maybe voting is rigged? We really don't know.

All that we have to go on is what we've been told and how we perceive the limited information that is given to us.

=\ Sorry if I upset anyone.

Okay, lemme just explain somthing.

THIS IS ****ING POLITICS. EVERYBODY WILL LIE, IT'S A MATTER OF VOTES.

Obama lies, sure. I don't deny that. But McCain lies just as much, so don't vote based on who's more honest. Vote on their plans, vote on wether you think they can actually run the country.

Edit: Oh yeah, and everyone mudslings too. Find me someone that doesn't, then I'll be shocked.

The word 'lie' never even came up. And AGAIN, I never said that McCain was an honest man, nor did I say Obama's a liar. I even mentioned in one of my posts that Mudslinging happens between candidates. Maybe you should read everything stated before you carelessly post something.

[quietchat]

Insults are usually 3/5th's lying, so it's on topic (Although I thought I saw lie, but what's the difference anyway?)

Besides this, there's no real point in arguing over it. Someone would mention lying anyway at some point, McCain lies about Obama shooting up taxes for everyone, Obama lies about Palin.

And of course, I didn't direct the post at anyone specific.

[Ino]

I don't really give a shit who wins, I just want a frickin president.

[HOKAGE]

like i said obama and not because he is black lol

[Holly-Sama]

Insults are usually 3/5th's lying, so it's on topic (Although I thought I saw lie, but what's the difference anyway?)

Besides this, there's no real point in arguing over it. Someone would mention lying anyway at some point, McCain lies about Obama shooting up taxes for everyone, Obama lies about Palin.

And of course, I didn't direct the post at anyone specific.

If there is no real point in arguing over it, the Debate Room should be closed then.

And yeah, I'm sure lying would come up, and I would gladly say that all politicians lie. Everyone lies.

Even if you weren't directing your post at anyone in particular, it was quite obvious that it was directed toward the "McCain Supporter", aka, me.

[Dolly]

Can you at least spell his name right in the poll, jfc.

[shimon]

i really dont care who wins as long as they help or country i dont care

[analogZero]

Can you at least spell his name right in the poll, jfc.

well they're both misspelled so neither is at a disadvantage there.


And you guys do know that you have the right to vote for someone other than the two typical parties or you can choose not to vote (actually go to the registration and write in that you don't approve and would prefer none). You talk a lot about how you're voting for one person just so you don't have to vote for the other, but also spill yourself about how you should focus on the political plans of the candidates. It seems so weird that many americans are so easy to dismiss anything that's not republican or democrat, but then complain about them so wholeheartedly. But I guess that's politics anywhere. We've got essentially 4 major parties up north of you, and it's not much more complicated....still causes face palm action though.

[Russkie]

Both should eat the end of a shot gun.

[Magicbird]

McCain because Obama lacks experence... I mean, hes only been senate for one year.

[jamjfly]

I think McCain should win, and not because Obama is black. It is because Obama is going to raise taxes, bring our troops out of Iraq, and plus he hasn't even been in congress for a whole year yet. McCain has been in senate for 22 years, he is way more qualified than Obama.

[Dolly]

I think McCain should win, and not because Obama is black. It is because Obama is going to raise taxes, bring our troops out of Iraq, and plus he hasn't even been in congress for a whole year yet. McCain has been in senate for 22 years, he is way more qualified than Obama.

Obama is only raising taxes on upper class.

[Dragon_Of_]

Sorry, but I don't like being referred to as a stupid American. I'm voting McCain. Change is not always for the better.

neither is staying the course... mccain is just another bush.. i call mccain satan's apprentice (and i call bush satan) i hate relgion/belief, and i'd rather die than have another right-wing religious nut in the office. (see sig)

and palin was a horrible chocie, she's a joke.. who cares if she's got 5 kids.. that is where she should be WITH HER KIDS, not assisting running a country... why should the kids suffer just becuase mccain wanted to try and get the hilary supporters on his side? i guarentee if obama had chose clinton, palin would not have been mccain's choice.

and what do you mena "change isn't always good" we've exausted the "stay the course" option, now all we have left is to admit that iraq was a waste of time, money and lives... and get out of there. and we deffinitly need to get off of oil all together. i vote we go to the compressed air car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWQG6F9qOPE

[Dragon_Of_]

one thing about rasing taxes: YOU HAVE TO.. how are we gonna pay for things the country needs without someone paying in? all of our hospitals, schools, police force, welfare/governemnt aid programs, etc. are going further and further into crap because of bush's tax cuts for the RICH.. not for us working class, but the check signers. someone has to pay in, so i say all should ahve to pay in.. starting with the rich carryingthe brunt of it... to me itis the rich's responciblity to take care of those who can't take care of themselves, imo.

[Dragon_Of_]

*sigh* I'm voting McCain. I, also, do not think that someone who calls America stupid should be the leader of said country.

he's right, though.. since a majority did vote in a guy who isn't smarter than a 5th grader (bush jr.)into the highest office of the country.. and you're saying that a majority of this country isn't stupid? open your eyes. i say a majory of the human race is stupid, but hey, we'll go there later.

[Dolly]

one thing about rasing taxes: YOU HAVE TO.. how are we gonna pay for things the country needs without someone paying in? all of our hospitals, schools, police force, welfare/governemnt aid programs, etc. are going further and further into crap because of bush's tax cuts for the RICH.. not for us working class, but the check signers. someone has to pay in, so i say all should ahve to pay in.. starting with the rich carryingthe brunt of it... to me itis the rich's responciblity to take care of those who can't take care of themselves, imo.

A lot of americans are suffering already, we don't need higher taxes from them. Looking at Obama's plan though, he's agreeing with you. Like I said, he's raising taxes on upper class a good deal.

[illuminati]

McCain - proven to be elite leader, a war hero, and have the heart of a soldier willing to support/help other war heroes like him who are fighting for their country
unlike;
obama - a first term senator, needed more experiences and a credentials to lead a powerful country

my suggestion is that why not obama join first the army to know what sacrifice means to be a citizen of a country not just pure talk. he even denied his half brother living in a poor country. A brother! live 1 dollar a day just to survive.

[Dolly]

McCain - proven to be elite leader, a war hero, and have the heart of a soldier willing to support/help other war heroes like him who are fighting for their country
unlike;
obama - a first term senator, needed more experiences and a credentials to lead a powerful country

my suggestion is that why not obama join first the army to know what sacrifice means to be a citizen of a country not just pure talk. he even denied his half brother living in a poor country. A brother! live 1 dollar a day just to survive.

Because joining the army makes you a better president.

[zato]

obama !!!!!!

[salmeria]

i vote obama...coz u dont know maybe macain will drop dead anytime...lol

[Narutorox]

i also think its good to change because we never had a black president i hope we have a better future i want to know what will happen when he dose become president

[carolyn07]

...i dont know!,.

i want al gore!,.hahahaha!,.

coz hes so environmental friendly!,.♥

[Russkie]

i vote obama...coz u dont know maybe macain will drop dead anytime...lol

Yeah... thats why it so important to have a VP. To bad he doesnt have one, right?

[La_Mort]

Obama...yes we can!!!! I definitely agree things haven`t been going well as is and we desperately need a change now.:cute:

[Magicbird]

Obama...yes we can!!!! I definitely agree things haven`t been going well as is and we desperately need a change now.:cute:

lol Change isnt always for the good of things.

[contrast]

I vote for a Re-Election to cast a Vote in Rudy Guliani who should be our President. I think I miss spelled Rudy's last name but you get the picture our choices for President SUCK. GO Independence !!

[InnocentW]

ehh they both suck pretty bad -.-

[Dragon_Of_]

I vote for a Re-Election to cast a Vote in Rudy Guliani who should be our President. I think I miss spelled Rudy's last name but you get the picture our choices for President SUCK. GO Independence !!

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME, please tell me you're being sarcastic.. Rudy wants to go to war with the whole middle east. and that's a war we cannot win. and on top of that we cannot afford to be in iraq anymore, let-a-lone be in the WHOLE middle east. it's not worth the lives, money and time to be over there.

so rudy is would be our worst choice yet.. i think i'd pack p and go if rudy was our best bet or even if palin and mccain were our best bet... CANADA here i come..... or maybe Sweden, it's where most of the bands i like go o tour (as oposed to where i'm at in Ohio)

i draw the line at palin wanting to take books off of library shelves in alaska. that it bad jew-jew. next thing she'll take away or censure anything her one-sided religious mind thinks is "inappropriate" which means just about everything i have for entertainment.. not good. believe it or not we're getting closer and closer to the laws in the movie demolition man with Stallone, Snipes & Bullock, if you haven't seen that movie.... SEE IT, and you'll know what i mean.

[contrast]

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME, please tell me you're being sarcastic.. Rudy wants to go to war with the whole middle east. and that's a war we cannot win. and on top of that we cannot afford to be in iraq anymore, let-a-lone be in the WHOLE middle east. it's not worth the lives, money and time to be over there.

so rudy is would be our worst choice yet.. i think i'd pack p and go if rudy was our best bet or even if palin and mccain were our best bet... CANADA here i come..... or maybe Sweden, it's where most of the bands i like go o tour (as oposed to where i'm at in Ohio)

i draw the line at palin wanting to take books off of library shelves in alaska. that it bad jew-jew. next thing she'll take away or censure anything her one-sided religious mind thinks is "inappropriate" which means just about everything i have for entertainment.. not good. believe it or not we're getting closer and closer to the laws in the movie demolition man with Stallone, Snipes & Bullock, if you haven't seen that movie.... SEE IT, and you'll know what i mean.

I'm not here to debate, but SERIOUSLY we need a RE-ELECTION, your not surely considering the two pansies we got now- . My vote lies with what I think, its my right as a citizen of the United States of America :P regardless of what you think don't go spitting trash around at people like that, they will choose what THEY THINK as an Individual.Then vote freely at will. Films and propaganda do us no good I frown at the politicians and their strategies of today. Its really sad and disappointing. I am Independent and not wish washy like all dumb-a** politicians. THE GREAT SPIRIT HAS SPOKEN!!

I found these one sided quotes see what I was saying?
Internet/TV: Obama is a terrorist fear some republicans!!
Internet/TV: Mc Cain is too old complain Democrats!!
If anyone finds more statemnts like these feel free to quote me and stick to the !$#$% politicians!

[salmeria]

Yeah... thats why it so important to have a VP. To bad he doesnt have one, right?

lol yup you're so right..^^

[bluedragon]

anyways if we vote for either both this country is going down
one mccain is going to follow bush steps
and two obama dont have experience to run and fix this country up
so we are done for

[salmeria]

no one saw obama in action..he might be better than both bush and mccain..

[bluedragon]

i guess ure right but definite obama got my vote

[animex09]

i would vote for obama. i just think we need a little change and i also dont want to go through wat bush made us go though.

[chocolat12]

mcCain...

i dont really like obama...

[negima fan]

macain is the only way to go:scaried:

[lemonek]

I go for Obama.

[Dragon_Of_]

I'm not here to debate, but SERIOUSLY we need a RE-ELECTION, your not surely considering the two pansies we got now- . My vote lies with what I think, its my right as a citizen of the United States of America :P regardless of what you think don't go spitting trash around at people like that, they will choose what THEY THINK as an Individual.Then vote freely at will. Films and propaganda do us no good I frown at the politicians and their strategies of today. Its really sad and disappointing. I am Independent and not wish washy like all dumb-a** politicians. THE GREAT SPIRIT HAS SPOKEN!!

I found these one sided quotes see what I was saying?
Internet/TV: Obama is a terrorist fear some republicans!!
Internet/TV: Mc Cain is too old complain Democrats!!
If anyone finds more statemnts like these feel free to quote me and stick to the !$#$% politicians!

who says i'm trying to tell him who to vote for, i'm just giving said person the facts.. and i'm independant too. that doesn't mean i onlyhave to vote for independants... i wanted either Ralph Nader or John Edwards, but since they both dropped out i gotta pick from who i'm left with, since i doubt a write in would work.

i happen agree with lewis black about the election: when you go into the polls you're really choosing 2 lumps of crap, and the only difference is which one smells better. and to me obama smells better, because he doens't seem to be for big buisness, religion, etc.

[Russkie]

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5525/hopeiateofthemassescx9.jpg

http://www.againsthillary.com/wp-content/uploads/marxist_hillary.jpg

I couldnt find anything for Mccain, so I'm just going to post this:

http://forthardknox.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/john-mccain.jpg

Oh no! Hes having a heart attack!

[quietchat]

When it comes down to it, we're almost certain to be worse off no matter what we do, with this bailout package going on and more international turmoil. We're still screwed.

[La_Mort]

lol Change isnt always for the good of things.

no magic it`s not but we need to go through some new processes until we find something that works. Honestly, You can`t say that the way the government has been going has been helping our economy. And if you do your crazy, delusional and obviously have no concern for something bigger then yourself. We have to learn to make decisions that benefit everyone, even if we don`t always agree or else no one including ourselves will survive.

[contrast]

When it comes down to it, we're almost certain to be worse off no matter what we do, with this bailout package going on and more international turmoil. We're still screwed.

Yeah Quitechat is right, unless I come up with a petition for re-building this country which REALLY needs it. Ever since I was little I was lied to about this is the land of the free where you can do anything freely. Our problem lies with school systems and Economy I'd like to change our problems by replacing the system of Government we use, its on TED.com on my profile I'll have to get the URL. Mind you I gave only half of the idea and I think it would be better then the crap we are facing in the possible near future. I hope for the best and I don't lie- I am Independent not a politician and I have the Democracy and wise knowledge to deal with everything. So I plan on re-building this country it will not be easy and no doubt the current Government of the US will take my peaceful idea as a threat. Who's with me? I mean Bisness and well!!

-Domo

here is the link:http://www.ted.com/index.php/profiles/view/id/137387

[Roanoke]

I don't think the elected should be voted based by appearance. What if i was a unicorn and i ran for president? yah i'd get all the pot head votes. and other loonies. But i wouldn't want the unicorn running my country. When we have troubles the unicorn is gonna like, hop away on a frikkin rainbow. and we'll all be screwed.

So you should listen to their stances on current issues and base it on that. :D But, true, change is sometimes good.

[Russkie]

Long live Comrade Obama.

[cappedkey]

I vote neither, we need a president that actually cares about the US.

[Zaraki]

mccain, dolly knows why. liberals have been known to raise taxes and that's something we don't need. i'm a moderate conservative so i do see and sometimes agree with some liberals. reasons why to raise taxes would be for wars, research for new energy, and to keep our economy from hitting that certain line that would put us in the dumps. you do not need to raise taxes when our economy is in the dump. i was watching the debate last night and one thing that really jerked me off is when obama was talking about helping either pakistan or afganistan (yes i know my spelling sucks) rebuild their economy. my point if our economy is still in the dump and he does this it'll get worse and worse for us while other countries economy grows. yeah our economy might be in a better shape when that happens.

now about the bail out. i was against it but mccain voted for it. well so did obama. even with the bail out the stock market still dropped 800 points.

obama is nothing but a smooth talker who i believe is still wet behind the ears. yeah war experience can be a good or bad thing depending on how disturbed the person is. in my opinion war experience helps. now even though i'm voting for mccain i have a feeling obama will win b/c people are idiots for voting for the wrong reason. yeah it would be cool to have a black president but i can't trust obama.

i would like to go on and on especially about energy and that we need nuclear energy, and how there hasn't been a problem with it since it's being used to power carriers, battleships, and submarines. i would like to talk about off shore drilling and all that jazz but i won't.

now yeah we can blame bush for our economy but the blame should be on clinton for the fannie-mae, and freddie-mae which gives loans for people who couldn't get loans from the banks b/c of their horrible credit history. in my opinion that's where our economy start going rock bottom.

[bluedragon]

obama or ma Cain the economy is bad so it doesnt matter

[Zaraki]

obama or ma Cain the economy is bad so it doesnt matter

yeah that is true....and what i have seen and know yeah obama has popular votes but like i have seen before popular votes doesn't always win you the election.

[Dragon_Of_]

mccain, dolly knows why. liberals have been known to raise taxes and that's something we don't need.

actually we need taxes raised, how do you think we pay for roads, schools, police, some programs ot help the poor, etc. and don't forget the national debt........ we can't just keep on putting things on the card, because after a while they'll call us on our debt and expect us to pay and we won't be able to, OR they'll just stop lending us money. so we need taxes to be raised, but on the rich, not the common people. and that is what obama WANTS to do. raise them on the rich.

most people who vote republican are putting their "god" and big buinsess ahead of the common folk 90% of the time, becuase it seems that's all republicans care about... we do not need someone like mccain who is fine with keeping us in iraq for 100 years, nor do we need someone as stupid as palin in office, either. i don't care if a women is president, as long as she's qualified, and palin IS NOT.

[Dolly]

Interesting thing that energy is mentioned. McCain wants to do offshore drilling while Obama wants to put funds into different sources of energy. Does Obama's plan cost more? I'm pretty sure.

But the thing about offshore drilling, it'll only be giving us oil for another 9 months maximum. What's after that?

I think both candidates agree that we need energy independence, but I feel that Obama's plan is stronger, it lasts longer.

[Viduus]

Wow... when did the young republican party take over AF? And how many of them consider Fox news to be their #1 source of information?

Friggin hell, open your eyes people, Bush administration (and I'm not going to blame just the guy himself since he's just a puppet) drove the country into the ground, and now you're wanna vote in a guy who's going to continue the same path for 4 more years just because you either A) happen to not like the other guy personally and/or B) because McCain was in the army? Thank god most of you aren't old enough to vote...

[babyly]

Obama is the coolest :-]

[Dolly]

Wow... when did the young republican party take over AF?

Haha, what are you talking about, Vid? The poll has Obama favored by over twice as many than McCain.

[Viduus]

Haha, what are you talking about, Vid? The poll has Obama favored by over twice as many than McCain.I suppose so, just seems like more people are posting about voting for McCain >.>

My statement still stands!

[Dolly]

Who knows. It's an obvious truth that Republicans are getting desperate lately, though. I can't believe people are actually pushing the thought that Obama is a terrorist.

I guess I would be saying stupid things too after getting knocked apart in the latest debate.

[AnbuItachi]

My gangsta obama of course!

[Dragon_Of_]

I can't believe people are actually pushing the thought that Obama is a terrorist.

m, either, i mean some people are even following the republican propaganda that "omg he has bomb in his name, HE'LL KILL US ALL AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" (my former boss actually said this, and i've heard it a lot on tv)
and to which i say "mcCAIN has CAIN in his name OMG, he killed his brother, so by republican rational he'll kill us all if he killed his own bother"

that arguement is incredibly assinine anyway, like somoene's name makes them bad? so does htta mean that no one will vote for a guy named george remembering how the last guy name george screwed us over?

voting bassed on name is so stupid. ofcourse these people who think that a guy who's againsgt somehting so unimportant as gay marriage will be a good president and make good decisions are morons aswel, of course oyu'd have to be eihter A) desprite to believe in somehting or B) too stupid to know any better if oyu believe they have 1 good (in your opinon) point so that means they will have all the others good aswel...

i swear some people just shouldn't vote.

[Dolly]

i swear some people just shouldn't vote.

Sadly, they do. Around 6-9% of Americans will not be voting for Obama because of ethnicity. And no, I didn't pull that statistic out of my ass.

[Dragon_Of_]

Sadly, they do. Around 6-9% of Americans will not be voting for Obama because of ethnicity. And no, I didn't pull that statistic out of my ass.

yeah, i heard that too

its really pathetic that people let their own prejudice screw them over in the end.... but the sad part is it screws others over aswel :pissed:

[xXWENWENXx]

i dunt live in america so i dunt noe much about those
but i still fink obama's better
de youger

[Zaraki]

actually we need taxes raised, how do you think we pay for roads, schools, police, some programs ot help the poor, etc. and don't forget the national debt........ we can't just keep on putting things on the card, because after a while they'll call us on our debt and expect us to pay and we won't be able to, OR they'll just stop lending us money. so we need taxes to be raised, but on the rich, not the common people. and that is what obama WANTS to do. raise them on the rich.

most people who vote republican are putting their "god" and big buinsess ahead of the common folk 90% of the time, becuase it seems that's all republicans care about... we do not need someone like mccain who is fine with keeping us in iraq for 100 years, nor do we need someone as stupid as palin in office, either. i don't care if a women is president, as long as she's qualified, and palin IS NOT.

heh go figure you didn't read the rest of what i said. i said i am a mod conservative and yeah taxes do need to be raised to pay for that kind of thing. i'm just saying we don't need taxes raised on us now in the economic dump we are in.

[Dragon_Of_]

heh go figure you didn't read the rest of what i said. i said i am a mod conservative and yeah taxes do need to be raised to pay for that kind of thing. i'm just saying we don't need taxes raised on us now in the economic dump we are in.

actually the way i understand it, obama wants to raise taxes for the upper class people, not the lower class..... but i could be wrong

[Zaraki]

yeah, i heard that too

its really pathetic that people let their own prejudice screw them over in the end.... but the sad part is it screws others over aswel :pissed:

i know that pisses me off as well my great aunt on my moms side is racist. she disowned her own daughter when she married a black guy.

[Zaraki]

actually the way i understand it, obama wants to raise taxes for the upper class people, not the lower class..... but i could be wrong

someone said on a radio station what the income was supposed to be for "upper class" might of been around the middle class income line i don't remember what it is.

yeah dolly i know about the off shore drilling thing...who knows maybe by then if he does become president and after the 9 months there would be the technology for hydrogen or, solar powered cars....sorry for double posting btw.

[Dolly]

The thing is, why put funding into something that's going to last less than a year. Why not go straight to some long-term goals to help us become energy independent? Also, many of these alternative sources aren't dangerous to the environment.

And about the taxing, yes, he's giving higher taxes on households earning 250,000 and up, while lowering taxes on middle class.

[Zaraki]

The thing is, why put funding into something that's going to last less than a year. Why not go straight to some long-term goals to help us become energy independent? Also, many of these alternative sources aren't dangerous to the environment.

And about the taxing, yes, he's giving higher taxes on households earning 250,000 and up, while lowering taxes on middle class.

yeah i know i didn't make sense there. i'm gonna do more research on a few more topics like health care, and something else.

well the thing is the whole point of off shore is to lower gas prices for us and keep us less dependent on foreign oil. i know i was being un-realistic when saying you never know tech could be available for it in the next 9 months if mccain does become pres. it might take longer than 9 months until the tech is available. here's how i see it. do you really want to pay higher gas prices when we are still trying to come up with the technology, or have off-shore and pay lower prices (if that does lower the prices).

i finally have a car of my own (a pantiac vibe) when i was borrowing my parent's cars i did but some back but now i will be paying all by myself and i don't want to spend $30 to fill it up.

[Dolly]

yeah i know i didn't make sense there. i'm gonna do more research on a few more topics like health care, and something else.

well the thing is the whole point of off shore is to lower gas prices for us and keep us less dependent on foreign oil. i know i was being un-realistic when saying you never know tech could be available for it in the next 9 months if mccain does become pres. it might take longer than 9 months until the tech is available. here's how i see it. do you really want to pay higher gas prices when we are still trying to come up with the technology, or have off-shore and pay lower prices (if that does lower the prices).

i finally have a car of my own (a pantiac vibe) when i was borrowing my parent's cars i did but some back but now i will be paying all by myself and i don't want to spend $30 to fill it up.

Look, the truth is, we don't exactly have a shortage of oil here. The only thing that's keeping prices up are the companies. Changing the source of oil won't change the oil giants.

[Dragon_Of_]

we have to look at a lot of things, not just how much oil there is" but the damage to the invironment, cost, and the fast of where it's comming from (the middle east) in essence: if you drive a car, you're funding terrorism

30% of mammels are on the red list, IMO our pollution and growing numbers don't help any.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081006/ts_afp/environmentbiodiversityspecies;_ylt=AhORygrJhnUcol y7RRvt36V34T0D

and there are better alternatives out there than gas.... the compressed air car:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWQG6F9qOPE

and even magnetic motors:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvB3PiPBozU

[Zaraki]

we have to look at a lot of things, not just how much oil there is" but the damage to the invironment, cost, and the fast of where it's comming from (the middle east) in essence: if you drive a car, you're funding terrorism

30% of mammels are on the red list, IMO our pollution and growing numbers don't help any.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081006/ts_afp/environmentbiodiversityspecies;_ylt=AhORygrJhnUcol y7RRvt36V34T0D

and there are better alternatives out there than gas.... the compressed air car:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWQG6F9qOPE

and even magnetic motors:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvB3PiPBozU

interesting i was expecting that to be a bit more expensive. it's around the cost of a used 04 pontiac vibe.

[Champbryce]

Obama Is The Best

[Champbryce]

OBAMA ROCKShttp://Death Note.com

[Russkie]

OBAMA ROCKShttp://Death Note.com

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b344/jediryan22/Obama-Communism.jpg

Awesome, another Communist.

Welcome.

[yukichan87]

hmm...i dont really like obama or mccain, though i do agree with mccain politics more than obama's. But realistically either way i think our country's screwed...

[analogZero]

well our election passed not too long ago, and we got the same c*nt in office again...disappointed I turn to your nation as a means of solidifying my hope that not everyone wants to be the underling of a c*nt.

[Tomboychic]

Quote:
Originally Posted by quietchat
When it comes down to it, we're almost certain to be worse off no matter what we do, with this bailout package going on and more international turmoil. We're still screwed.

I guess i would vote for obama! :ramen:

[Raven]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b344/jediryan22/Obama-Communism.jpg

Awesome, another Communist.

Welcome.

You just hit the nail on the head dude.

how many of you knew Mrs. McCain was a drifter? Check it out, she's awesome XD
http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?categoryId=null&brand=null&videoId=3578032&n8pe6c=2

[Russkie]

You just hit the nail on the head dude.

how many of you knew Mrs. McCain was a drifter? Check it out, she's awesome XD
http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?categoryId=null&brand=null&videoId=3578032&n8pe6c=2

I'm thinking about making a thread and posting this in it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv7AAc681bE&feature=related

Whether anybody will watch it or not, I dont know.

[Dolly]

We get it, you think Obama is a communist.

[Raven]

Uh, Obama's basic views are communistic.
Nice video Russki, it is very informative, thanks!

Oh.... and I just voted! W00T.

[Russkie]

We get it, you think Obama is a communist.

Think? No, my friend, I know he is.

[partyprobe]

Hey onama is part white so don't hate

[Russkie]

Hey onama is part white so don't hate

And I'm part teddy bear, which means you should love me.

http://www.animefuel.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=448&pictureid=4263

Seriously though, are you kidding me? I dont hate him because hes white or black... I hate everyone equally, the way it should be.

[leerock89]

If Obama becomes president I will leave America. If McCain becomes president I will leave America. Well looks like I'm leaving America then. See you idiots later!!

[Russkie]

If Obama becomes president I will leave America. If McCain becomes president I will leave America. Well looks like I'm leaving America then. See you idiots later!!

NooOoooOOo!

Wait for me!

[Dolly]

Russkie, I really have to argue with you here, as often as I would consider it pointless. Obama is putting more power into the government, that's a pretty standard democratic view. If I'm not mistaken, many of our founding fathers, by the federalist party, could be seen as early democrats. By saying Barack Obama is a communist, you could also be saying that figures such as George Washington, Alexander Hamilton (a leader in federalist plans), and many others.

With all of the quibbling that's gone over between communism and democracy over the decades, it's understandable for anyone to be cautious over the chance of a changing government. But the thing is, I honestly see it impossible for our country to passively become a communist nation. If Obama was a communist, he would be impeached before we knew it. Perhaps the line isn't as fine as it used to be, but labeling a presidential candidate as a communist is just ridiculous.

[Russkie]

Russkie, I really have to argue with you here, as often as I would consider it pointless. Obama is putting more power into the government, that's a pretty standard democratic view. If I'm not mistaken, many of our founding fathers, by the federalist party, could be seen as early democrats. By saying Barack Obama is a communist, you could also be saying that figures such as George Washington, Alexander Hamilton (a leader in federalist plans), and many others.

With all of the quibbling that's gone over between communism and democracy over the decades, it's understandable for anyone to be cautious over the chance of a changing government. But the thing is, I honestly see it impossible for our country to passively become a communist nation. If Obama was a communist, he would be impeached before we knew it. Perhaps the line isn't as fine as it used to be, but labeling a presidential candidate as a communist is just ridiculous.

If I'm not mistaken, the founding fathers also put alot of thought into how to keep people from having TOO much power. Look at history... if you give too much authority to one person, pretty soon you're going to be told when to piss, and crap. That, or be shot for not obeying. Yeah, give the government more power! What could go wrong there?

An attitude like that is what makes it so much easyer for the wolf, dressed in sheeps clothing, to hide among sheep. If you just asume this government will always be stable, then you're turning a blind eye to a fire waiting to happen.

Really, are you so sure about that? Tell me, where was he born? What country was it in? And, where is his birth certificate? Last time I checked, he refused to provide it. Is there a specific reason why he might not want the American people to know about it?

Seriously, if we dont even know who this guy is and where hes from, then how do we know his "change" isnt a "change to Communism"?

[Raven]

Dolly, I'm with Russkie on this one. When it comes to communism he knows what he's talking about. Obama wants to create a socialistic state where everyone is equal, there is no poor and everyone works for the greater good. Great idea! Except that it DOESN'T WORK! Every country we call "communist" is a state that has tried to achieve this Marxist utopian existence and ended up as a dictatorship that we call communism. You don't want a more powerful government because that is when the government decides it can run its self without you and turns into some form of dictatorship. When our forefathers created this nation they made the government too weak (The Articles of Confederation) because they feared powerful governments like the ones they fled in Europe. They rewrote the constitution to create a slightly stronger central government in a hope of finding a happy medium between anarchy and dictatorship. So far it has worked just fine. However, in times like these it wouldn't take much of a crisis period to tip the scale in either direction and most likely toward communism.

You also said you believe it is impossible for our nation to fall peacefully into communism. Watch the video Russkie posted, it makes everything very clear.

[Dolly]

Again, I'll have to strongly disagree. I think all three of us know that we're people who are "Positive" of our own views. To set this straight know to save insult and heartache, I hope you both can agree that it's a perfectly reasonable argument to say that Obama is "not" a communist. Just as I'll respect and agree that there's some credibility to believing just that.

With that in our minds, I'll bring up a few things.

First, I'll have to honestly say the birth certificate is a blunt lie set out, only used to strengthen views of Obama being "unamerican"

Look here.

http://www.politifact.com/media/img/graphics/birthCertObama.jpg

That's his birth certificate.

And why would he not want to show his birth certificate in the first place?

Unlike the other documents, Hawaii birth certificates aren’t public record. Only family members can request copies. So in that respect, he can reserve to show a birth certificate for his own privacy. But for the prying public, those of you who think the certificate I linked is a fake:

"At PolitiFact.com, we’re all about original sources. We don’t take anyone at their word or take the reporting of other media organizations as proof. We go to the heart of the story, the source of the truth — original, corroborating documents.

When the official documents were questioned, we went looking for more answers. We circled back to the Department of Health, had a newsroom colleague bring in her own Hawaii birth certificate to see if it looks the same (it’s identical). But every answer triggered more questions.

And soon enough, after going to every length possible to confirm the birth certificate’s authenticity, you start asking, what is reasonable here?

Because if this document is forged, then they all are.

If this document is forged, a U.S. senator and his presidential campaign have perpetrated a vast, long-term fraud. They have done it with conspiring officials at the Hawaii Department of Health, the Cook County (Ill.) Bureau of Vital Statistics, the Illinois Secretary of State’s office, the Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois and many other government agencies.

Sounds like a Vince Flynn novel." -PolitiFact

You can read the "full" entry here: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

Please, at least credit him this much.

And in relevance, once again, to communism, it's still impossible. As we know what our government is, it should be taken into consideration that it's impossible for Obama to take control of the country.

Three words: Checks and Balances

Each branch can interfere with each other. Our government is set up so it's quite literally impossible to make such a gigantic change from Democracy to Communism.

No, Obama doesn't plan to distribute wealth to the point of "Communism".

The situation of our country has been much worse. Many of our wars were far more brutal than Iraq. We survived two wars against Britain, lasted through a Civil War, where more American lives were lost than any conflict to this date. We've striven through many other wars, as well as an official depression.

Tell me, exactly what "Crisis" are we in? We've faced much worse, and we're better off with the situation now because we have the past to learn from.

Finally, in accordance to the Articles of Federation. No, it didn't fail because we feared powerful governments, it failed because the Articles provided something that wasn't even really a government yet.
1) There was no Federal Court
2) There wasn't the power to tax
3) There was no executive branch
4) There was no control over foreign and inner-state commerce.

These were problems that directly affected our country as well as the relationships with others. But we didn't fix it because we were scared, we fixed it to create a government that could actually manage a country.

A presidential candidate, (who is quite likely to become our next president), is being called a terrorist, a communist, and quite descriptively unamerican. To do something like that, is to completely undermine an infrastructure that has evolved over the centuries--an infrastructure that has seen far worse in earlier days. Does it sound statistically likely to you two?

[leerock89]

Good lord what was up with that post Dolly? I didn't even read all of it, it was an eye sore. No offense to all the work you did but just cause you can't get your point across doesn't mean you have to blind side everyone with a huge post. And also when you put a pic that large it screws up your post which is why the right side of it is slightly gone.

[Dolly]

Good lord what was up with that post Dolly? I didn't even read all of it, it was an eye sore. No offense to all the work you did but just cause you can't get your point across doesn't mean you have to blind side everyone with a huge post. And also when you put a pic that large it screws up your post which is why the right side of it is slightly gone.

I apologize for the large picture, and I realize that it's slightly off, but it can still be deciphered.

And as far as the length of the post, "I" frankly don't have any control of that. I'm a wordy person, and there was a lot to talk about from the two previous posts. Suffice to say, if this was an official debate, I'd have gone past the time.

I can't really paraphrase other than "That's not true, dude."

PS: I have a raid tonight on WoW, so I sincerely apologize that I won't be able to respond to further discussion until tomorrow morning. But I do appreciate such a debate, it's riveting.

And just typing that isn't exactly convincing. If it's too much for anyone to read, then just don't read it.

[leerock89]

I don't mean to offend, you are entitled to say and write whatever you want. I was just saying that was one heck of a long post man.

[Russkie]

Thats quite big, and I will have to ask for a day or so and think about what I might say.

I do thank you for your response.

[TrueErebus]

I will chose obama.

[Dragon_Of_]

If I'm not mistaken, the founding fathers also put alot of thought into how to keep people from having TOO much power. Look at history... if you give too much authority to one person, pretty soon you're going to be told when to piss, and crap. That, or be shot for not obeying. Yeah, give the government more power! What could go wrong there?

An attitude like that is what makes it so much easyer for the wolf, dressed in sheeps clothing, to hide among sheep. If you just asume this government will always be stable, then you're turning a blind eye to a fire waiting to happen.

Really, are you so sure about that? Tell me, where was he born? What country was it in? And, where is his birth certificate? Last time I checked, he refused to provide it. Is there a specific reason why he might not want the American people to know about it?

Seriously, if we dont even know who this guy is and where hes from, then how do we know his "change" isnt a "change to Communism"?

let me ask you this: who is taking over the banks and buisnesses? BUSH, who has mccain voted like 90 some % of the time in support of? bush... so if mccian gets elected i forsee more government take overs of buisnesses.. which will lead us into a communism... which ins't necessarily bad. and then mccain will have a heart attack and stupid palin will become president and shoot us all from a helicopter.:pissed: lets face it mccain is likely to die in office and then miss bible first is gonna take over, and i'm not comfortable with religion running a lemonade stand, let-a-lone a government.

[kuristar]

sorry i choose none of the above

[Dolly]

let me ask you this: who is taking over the banks and buisnesses? BUSH, who has mccain voted like 90 some % of the time in support of? bush... so if mccian gets elected i forsee more government take overs of buisnesses.. which will lead us into a communism... which ins't necessarily bad. and then mccain will have a heart attack and stupid palin will become president and shoot us all from a helicopter.:pissed: lets face it mccain is likely to die in office and then miss bible first is gonna take over, and i'm not comfortable with religion running a lemonade stand, let-a-lone a government.

I'd agree here that Biden would obviously make a better president than Palin, few people are in discussion there. But as I stood for Barack, it's with equal resistance I also have to say "McCain is not a communist".

McCain, while I differ from his views, is honestly a good guy. Some of the stuff he's been saying is from the stress of his campaign, and not his preferred style of "playing" the political game.

America is and will be for a long time, a Democracy.

@Leerok

Also, I'm not offended, Leerock. Again, I'm very wordy and I'll try to make my posts a little more manageable for the sake of this discussion.

@Russkie

Thank you for putting consideration into this, that's admirable.

[Zaraki]

it's mostly liberals who want the government to be more involved in our lives not conservatives who want to keep the government less involved.

We get it, you think Obama is a communist.

he's a socialist.

[Dolly]

"social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members."

Socialism also goes, phrased by Marx, "a dictatorship of the proletariat" or commonly known as working class.

While Obama is helping them, it's too much to say that he's a socialist. A lot of people tend to exaggerate the effects the tax increase on upper class earerners are actually getting.

[Russkie]

Well, Dolly, kudos on the good argument. I've read it several times and I really cant come up with anything to say... Either I'm just stupid (I've got my money on stupid), or I need to wait a little longer until I get an idea of what I'm going to say. Either way, I admit defeat.

I've enjoyed our short, yet interesting debate.

(I'm still not going to stop making fun of him though, let alone any politician.)

[Pandora]

I rather have a dictator take over for a couple of years than to have this presidential election.

A) It saves the arguments for a few more years.
B) Maybe the same candidates won't try to run post dictator era.
C) It refreshes United State's reputation.

Since that won't happen I choose McCain even though I'm scared as hell for Palin.

/End of.

[SteyrAUG]

i think obama should wen man it is time for a black person lol::D::mad:This is why I'm glad kids under 18 can't vote. There are more important matters at hand than the color of the skin of the next president. For the record he is half white. Most people are too stupid to acknowledge a half&half like Obama for the other half. It always seems like he is just the "black guy".

As for the "change" it sounds like his plans will raise the taxes big time.

I would like McCain to win, but too much of America is pissed off at the republican party because of George so the democrats will probably win. To be honest I'm surprised some racist prick hasn't dropped Obama yet.

Speaking of racism I'm getting tired of those pricks who call asking who you are going to vote for then call you racist if you say McCain. Like the only reason I wouldn't vote Obama is the color of his skin. If I get more of those calls I will act racist just to get them riled up. ::D:

[Dolly]

The fact is, people voting against Obama because of his ethnicity is more of a problem to his own faction than people voting for him simply because he "is" black.

A surprising percentage of Americans won't vote for Obama just because of his color.

In fact, this race is likely much closer than it appears if "The Bradley Effect", as noted by TIME magazine is indeed affecting this election. Basically, this is the notion that voters will say they support a black candidate when they really don't--simply because they don't want to be called racists. But when they're in that voting booth, they vote their mind.

Now, with that explained, do I think that people are racist just because they don't vote for a black candidate? No, that's just ridiculous.

What's your reason? Maybe you don't like his health care plan, maybe you don't like his views on abortion--whatever it is, the usual voter won't even twitch at the thought of him being black or not.

But the truth is, because there "are" people out there that are critical, as previously noted--but it should also be noted that these critical people "exist" because racism does as well, on the same coin--The Bradley Effect could happen.

Here are some examples:

1983- Harold Washington notches a tight victory in Chicago's mayoral race, which he had been projected to win easily.

1989- Douglas Wilder becomes Virginia governor, winning by less than a point despite a 9-point average lead before Election Day.

1989- David Dinkins narrowly captures New York City's mayoral race despite a pre-election 18-point lead.

And now? 2008, Barack Obama leads by 7 points in the race's final weeks.

Do I think Obama is going to lose because of this effect? No, simply because this is a much grander scale of election--thus so, I feel that it will hopefully hold more levity on voters. Do I think that it may make the election closer than we think? Absolutely.

In summary, let's hope whatever people say--when they're at the booth, they'll be voting for a leader, not a pigment.

Edit: Yes, my posts are long as hell.

[partyprobe]

i dont understand how so called experts say that mcain gained supporters by winning the debate.

[Haru Glory]

i would say obama he is better

[kanama k.]

obama
because he has good ideas

[Russkie]

obama
because he has good ideas

*Cough* Like Communism.

[am0184]

I think the United States is officially screwed...unless...nah...

[Zaraki]

The fact is, people voting against Obama because of his ethnicity is more of a problem to his own faction than people voting for him simply because he "is" black.

A surprising percentage of Americans won't vote for Obama just because of his color.

Edit: Yes, my posts are long as hell.

someone interviewed a dozen people and asked if they would vote for obama and if they knew his policies and views. like the guy asked them did you know obama is for pro-life they said oh yeah i know that and asked them about questions that conservatives stand for. i don't really trust the polls they can go to one city or neighbor hood and use those poll numbers.

I rather have a dictator take over for a couple of years than to have this presidential election.

A) It saves the arguments for a few more years.
B) Maybe the same candidates won't try to run post dictator era.
C) It refreshes United State's reputation.

Since that won't happen I choose McCain even though I'm scared as hell for Palin.

/End of.
yeah or it could make our rep even worse...not too mention a dictator would want to get rid of elections and he or she would be in power for a long time. you know why our founding fathers wanted this country to be a democratic nation.

i've read and heard on the radio obama does plan on re-distributing the wealth. there aren't a lot of people who make over $250k. he says he will only raise it on the wealthy but when he realizes he can't come up with the money for his plans i guarantee taxes on everyone will go up.

now you might after this think i'm cruel and i don't give a rat's ass about this next group after i say this. once the wealth gets re-distributed to the poor the poor will keep leeching off of the government. i know they are reasons why they ended up in that situation b/c of a job lost, they are disabled, or they are a single parent trying to raise their kids but can't find anyone they trust to watch over the kids which is fine. but if you are able you should get off your can, and go get a job. yeah you might be working a few jobs but at least you should feel good that you have a job or two and your are providing for yourself or family.

[Ryuuzaki]

I vote Chuck Norris for Pres. 08! Screw those other guys.

[Dolly]

someone interviewed a dozen people and asked if they would vote for obama and if they knew his policies and views. like the guy asked them did you know obama is for pro-life they said oh yeah i know that and asked them about questions that conservatives stand for. i don't really trust the polls they can go to one city or neighbor hood and use those poll numbers.


yeah or it could make our rep even worse...not too mention a dictator would want to get rid of elections and he or she would be in power for a long time. you know why our founding fathers wanted this country to be a democratic nation.

i've read and heard on the radio obama does plan on re-distributing the wealth. there aren't a lot of people who make over $250k. he says he will only raise it on the wealthy but when he realizes he can't come up with the money for his plans i guarantee taxes on everyone will go up.

now you might after this think i'm cruel and i don't give a rat's ass about this next group after i say this. once the wealth gets re-distributed to the poor the poor will keep leeching off of the government. i know they are reasons why they ended up in that situation b/c of a job lost, they are disabled, or they are a single parent trying to raise their kids but can't find anyone they trust to watch over the kids which is fine. but if you are able you should get off your can, and go get a job. yeah you might be working a few jobs but at least you should feel good that you have a job or two and your are providing for yourself or family.

First off, the polling I was talking about was on the entire state of California, not some neighborhood. Judging a mixed state like this, one can assume there's an average in that ballpark that can be agreed upon nationally.

But again, his tax plan does "not" take money away from households earning under $250,000 and it will never get lower.

Also, he's taxing on $200,000 on single earners. (Not households, this is an often misconception that he's continually "lowering the bar".)

There's enough $200,000 singles and $250,00 households to get things working.

[leoern]

neither i think theyd both be extremley awful leaders.

[Dragon_Of_]

As for the "change" it sounds like his plans will raise the taxes big time.


you do realize his plan is to raise taxes on those that make $250,000 or more right?

and when you have a HUGE debt like this country has, SOMEONE has to pay taxes to pay off the debt (which is in the trillions) they took the debt clock down on wall street becuase they NEEDED ANOTHER DIGIT.. that's pretty bad

we can't pay for all this stuff (the stupid war, emergency services, road crews, schools, various government help programs for the poor, etc.) without actually making money. we can't just do what republicans want and put it all on the card... and the tax cuts bush put into place were mainly for the rich, i didn't notice my taxes go down on my paychecks.. and imo the rich should support the brunt of the finacial needs through taxes, after all they can afford it. republicans are for the rich and PRETEND to be the men of god, but jesus ate with the poor and helped the poor more, remember? so how can you (republicans) claim you're on jesus' side when you support the rich, and are making so much money off of oil while the american people have to STEAL gas to go to work? we've had that happen so many times around here that most stations won't turn on the pumps till you pre-pay.

[Dragon_Of_]

*Cough* Like Communism.

excuse me? who is letting the government take over big buisnesses? that would be a republian president.. the wheels for this are already in montion and i can't believe you don't see it.

it more than likely won't be obama that brings communism in, but mccain....

and communism ins't all that bad, it's just been in the hands of the wrong people

Communism according to dictionary.com:

A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.

Communism
A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

An economic and social system envisioned by the nineteenth-century German scholar Karl Marx. In theory, under communism, all means of production are owned in common, rather than by individuals (see Marxism and Marxism-Leninism). In practice, a single authoritarian party controls both the political and economic systems. In the twentieth century, communism was associated with the economic and political systems of China and the Soviet Union and of the satellites of the Soviet Union. (Compare capitalism and socialism.)

A scheme of equalizing the social conditions of life; specifically, a scheme which contemplates the abolition of inequalities in the possession of property, as by distributing all wealth equally to all, or by holding all wealth in common for the equal use and advantage of all.

Note: At different times, and in different countries, various schemes pertaining to socialism in government and the conditions of domestic life, as well as in the distribution of wealth, have been called communism.
----


it seems great, it's just that people screw it up... i mean everyone shares wealth, no more "i'm better than you becuase i have more stuff" or the nicest clothes, etc. there would be no more class levels.... and that is a GOOD thing. china seems to be doing great under it, INFACT we turned china back over to communism a while ago. the idea of communism isn't bad, it is the people behind it who are usually bad

[Russkie]

excuse me? who is letting the government take over big buisnesses? that would be a republian president.. the wheels for this are already in montion and i can't believe you don't see it.

How the hell did you get "the government is taking over big business" out of a sarcastic retort, let alone coming up with this gargantuan blob of letters and words as a response to such a retort? I'm starting to wonder if you even read what I was responding to.

Damn, and to think I was just saying this to get someone mad. (and I guess it worked).

it more than likely won't be obama that brings communism in, but mccain....

I beg to differ.

and communism ins't all that bad, it's just been in the hands of the wrong people

Seriously? You're going to make that argument? Honestly, Communism is (and always will be) bad in the hands of ANYONE. Its human nature to acquire as much power as possible, and keep is for as long as possible... not to mention the fact that power hungry people will do just about anything to do both.

Communism according to dictionary.com:

A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.

Communism
A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

Yes, thats right, explain Communism to a person who has actually lived in a Communist country. Thanks, I'm not sure where I would be without someone like you who knows how to read a dictionary, and then tell it to the rest of us idiots.

An economic and social system envisioned by the nineteenth-century German scholar Karl Marx. In theory, under communism, all means of production are owned in common, rather than by individuals (see Marxism and Marxism-Leninism). In practice, a single authoritarian party controls both the political and economic systems. In the twentieth century, communism was associated with the economic and political systems of China and the Soviet Union and of the satellites of the Soviet Union. (Compare capitalism and socialism.)

A scheme of equalizing the social conditions of life; specifically, a scheme which contemplates the abolition of inequalities in the possession of property, as by distributing all wealth equally to all, or by holding all wealth in common for the equal use and advantage of all.

Note: At different times, and in different countries, various schemes pertaining to socialism in government and the conditions of domestic life, as well as in the distribution of wealth, have been called communism.
----


it seems great, it's just that people screw it up... i mean everyone shares wealth, no more "i'm better than you becuase i have more stuff" or the nicest clothes, etc. there would be no more class levels.... and that is a GOOD thing. china seems to be doing great under it, INFACT we turned china back over to communism a while ago. the idea of communism isn't bad, it is the people behind it who are usually bad

...And blah, blah, blah... I didnt even bothing reading this far.

[Jason X]

Not a big fan of either but i wouldnt vote for mccain because I figure hes gonna dies soon and then we'd have palin as a leader and well to be honest that would be like 1st graders teaching highschool students

[Champbryce]

Obama is the man

[Ryuuzaki]

Obama is the man

Why do you think that? Are you yet another one of those beings who thinks he should be Pres because he's black?

[Dolly]

Why do you think that? Are you yet another one of those beings who thinks he should be Pres because he's black?

For every one of those, there's another racist.

[Ryuuzaki]

For every one of those, there's another racist.

And you're calling me racist? How exactly am I racist? Just because I called him black doesn't mean anything. And, nor am I saying that he's not going to be a good pres JUST because he's black. Seriously Dolly, before labeling people like that again, get yer damn facts straight.

[Dolly]

And you're calling me racist? How exactly am I racist? Just because I called him black doesn't mean anything. And, nor am I saying that he's not going to be a good pres JUST because he's black. Seriously Dolly, before labeling people like that again, get yer damn facts straight.

Calm down, Ryu. I'm not calling you a racist. Read my post again, I'm stating for every person voting for Obama "because he's black" there's another that's voting against him "because he's black". I never insinuated that you were a racist.

[Maydraie]

I predict that with either president, the United States of America will fall into ruin. Hahahahahahaha! Screw you americans!

[Dragon_Of_]

Seriously? You're going to make that argument? Honestly, Communism is (and always will be) bad in the hands of ANYONE. Its human nature to acquire as much power as possible, and keep is for as long as possible... not to mention the fact that power hungry people will do just about anything to do both.


you do realize that some people can handle that amount of power, it all depends on the person..... not all people were created the same, ya know? some people can handle that much power..... some can't... i wouldn't just use such a broad stroke to label all people as being power hungry. some people are not... i know i'm not, the bottom line is the government is corrupt, either way. accoring to this site: http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa011600a.htm

the president of the US only makes 400,000 bucks a year, yet they spend way more than 1 million to get ellected... for a job that only pays 1.6 million a term why spend waaaay over that, doesn't seem worth it, unless you're making money on kick-backs and such... they said obama rasied something like 40-50 some million on the campeighn trail for just one month, where is all this money raising power when they get into office? it seems to dissapear.

it's not like our governemtn is much better than communism, one form is not better than another. they all have their good and bad points, like all people do aswel. all of the forms of government suck, because MOST don't seem to care about the common person like you and i need, but they care about the rich... i think obama will be different... you gotta vote for basically the best of the worst come election time, and i think if mccain gets elected it'll be like letting the fox into the hen house.... and who knows, he may get too exicted and have a heart attack, and misses bible thumper will then become president... i'm sorry, but i am NOT comfortable with either mccain or stupid and overly religious palin.... i'd rather have hilary over palin any day, if i absolutely had to pick between the 2.

but if you think our government is much better i suggest you look at other countries' education level, work level, and crime level... most devoloped worlds are better than ours... especially on crime. our country's "greatness" is slipping away and only holding by a thread. if it's even there at all anymore.. i do NOT wanna stay the course, which is what willl happen if mccain is elected..... we do need change, because going on this same path for 8 or so years has royaly screwed this country... we do not need another 4 years of the same crap we've been through.. and we definitly don't need another 4 years over in iraq. we cannot afford it.

[Russkie]

you do realize that some people can handle that amount of power, it all depends on the person..... not all people were created the same, ya know? some people can handle that much power..... some can't... i wouldn't just use such a broad stroke to label all people as being power hungry. some people are not... i know i'm not, the bottom line is the government is corrupt, either way. accoring to this site: http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa011600a.htm

No, I disagree with you. Although not everyone is power hungry, everyone isnt perfect either. With a government system such as Communism, you need a perfect person to run it. Someone who will make sure things get where they need to be. Somone who will take care of the problems for you in the correct manner that suits everyones best interest.

Communism is giving the few power over the many. If those few really did have everyones best interest at heart, I just might actually welcome Communism. But the truth of the matter is, its everyman for himself.

And one last comment about this particular paragraph... You may know (say) that you're not power hungy, but how do I?

the president of the US only makes 400,000 bucks a year, yet they spend way more than 1 million to get ellected... for a job that only pays 1.6 million a term why spend waaaay over that, doesn't seem worth it, unless you're making money on kick-backs and such... they said obama rasied something like 40-50 some million on the campeighn trail for just one month, where is all this money raising power when they get into office? it seems to dissapear.

it's not like our governemtn is much better than communism, one form is not better than another. they all have their good and bad points, like all people do aswel. all of the forms of government suck, because MOST don't seem to care about the common person like you and i need, but they care about the rich... i think obama will be different... you gotta vote for basically the best of the worst come election time, and i think if mccain gets elected it'll be like letting the fox into the hen house.... and who knows, he may get too exicted and have a heart attack, and misses bible thumper will then become president... i'm sorry, but i am NOT comfortable with either mccain or stupid and overly religious palin.... i'd rather have hilary over palin any day, if i absolutely had to pick between the 2.

Democracy IS better than Communism. In Democracy, the people are the ones who elect their leaders and representatives. In Communism... well... you put their name in a box, or they'll put you in a box six feet under (if, of course, they let you vote in the first place). Really now, what makes this country great is the fact that you can bitch about anything you want and at the end of the day, you go home, eat your supper, and go to bed. In any other Communist third world country, do that, and you'll be lined up against a wall and shot. And let me go ahead and add, you would be one lucky sucker to have a meal waiting for you, let alone a house.

I would say, Democracy does care for the people. The Founding Fathers did as much as they could to prevent people from getting too much control. Not only did they fight for Independence, they risked their own necks to come up with a ton of paper work explaining how you and I are free to do as we please. If that doesnt spell "I love you", then I dont know what does.

but if you think our government is much better i suggest you look at other countries' education level, work level, and crime level... most devoloped worlds are better than ours... especially on crime. our country's "greatness" is slipping away and only holding by a thread. if it's even there at all anymore.. i do NOT wanna stay the course, which is what willl happen if mccain is elected..... we do need change, because going on this same path for 8 or so years has royaly screwed this country... we do not need another 4 years of the same crap we've been through.. and we definitly don't need another 4 years over in iraq. we cannot afford it.

*BECAUSE ITS ALL FORCED BY BULLETS. The stupid die quickly, because they fail to get food.

*For that country to run, they need MONEY. To get money, they need to produce THINGS. The best way to make things is by using PEOPLE. Now how do you get a large mass of people to do what you want, and get away with paying them almost nothing?

The answer? INTIMIDATION AND BULLETS.

*Now, to "crime level". What could that country be doing now, that might run "down stream" and effect the "crime level"? I think I may have said it earlyer...

Oh yes... INTIMIDATION AND BULLETS.

What happens if you steal a soda in this country and get caught for it? Oh, I dont know, maybe pay the owner a fine and appologize? What happens in China if you do the same thing? ...They remove your hands so you dont do it again (if they dont shoot you first).

[Dragon_Of_]

No, I disagree with you. Although not everyone is power hungry, everyone isnt perfect either. With a government system such as Communism, you need a perfect person to run it. Someone who will make sure things get where they need to be. Somone who will take care of the problems for you in the correct manner that suits everyones best interest.

Communism is giving the few power over the many. If those few really did have everyones best interest at heart, I just might actually welcome Communism. But the truth of the matter is, its everyman for himself.

And one last comment about this particular paragraph... You may know (say) that you're not power hungy, but how do I?



Democracy IS better than Communism. In Democracy, the people are the ones who elect their leaders and representatives. In Communism... well... you put their name in a box, or they'll put you in a box six feet under (if, of course, they let you vote in the first place). Really now, what makes this country great is the fact that you can bitch about anything you want and at the end of the day, you go home, eat your supper, and go to bed. In any other Communist third world country, do that, and you'll be lined up against a wall and shot. And let me go ahead and add, you would be one lucky sucker to have a meal waiting for you, let alone a house.

I would say, Democracy does care for the people. The Founding Fathers did as much as they could to prevent people from getting too much control. Not only did they fight for Independence, they risked their own necks to come up with a ton of paper work explaining how you and I are free to do as we please. If that doesnt spell "I love you", then I dont know what does.



*BECAUSE ITS ALL FORCED BY BULLETS. The stupid die quickly, because they fail to get food.

*For that country to run, they need MONEY. To get money, they need to produce THINGS. The best way to make things is by using PEOPLE. Now how do you get a large mass of people to do what you want, and get away with paying them almost nothing?

The answer? INTIMIDATION AND BULLETS.

*Now, to "crime level". What could that country be doing now, that might run "down stream" and effect the "crime level"? I think I may have said it earlyer...

Oh yes... INTIMIDATION AND BULLETS.

What happens if you steal a soda in this country and get caught for it? Oh, I dont know, maybe pay the owner a fine and appologize? What happens in China if you do the same thing? ...They remove your hands so you dont do it again (if they dont shoot you first).

well, that is america's problem as to why we have a crime problem, we don't have a penalty strict enough to deter the crime. i'd do it a little different, though, not a hand, but a finger gets loped off, and no benefits from the government, either for it.. and after 2 or 3 fingers youre checked into a hospital for clepto-mania. becuase if you can't stop after getting a finger or 2 lopped off, you may have a problem... we are no where near strict enough on our punnishments.

and if you think we pick the president you're wrong. the electoral colege does most of the time, how do you think bush got his first term, it certianitly wasn't me who voted for the guy who gives retards a bad name.

[Russkie]

well, that is america's problem as to why we have a crime problem, we don't have a penalty strict enough to deter the crime. i'd do it a little different, though, not a hand, but a finger gets loped off, and no benefits from the government, either for it.. and after 2 or 3 fingers youre checked into a hospital for clepto-mania. becuase if you can't stop after getting a finger or 2 lopped off, you may have a problem... we are no where near strict enough on our punnishments.

Last time I checked, the death penalty is as far as you can go when it comes to punishing someone for a crime. But of course, you have to do something really bad to get that. And even then, theres no guarantee that justice will be served.

and if you think we pick the president you're wrong. the electoral colege does most of the time, how do you think bush got his first term, it certianitly wasn't me who voted for the guy who gives retards a bad name.

I'll give you a 50/50 on that one. Its true that the majority of the votes can come from one area, but we are still given a choice. If you dont want someone in office, the best way to make sure of that is to pick your man. If, say for the sake of example, your man didnt get elected. Well, unfortunate as that may be, people obviously wanted the other guy in office.

You cant (and shouldnt) call a foul if your choice wasnt the one picked unless something "sneaky" actually happened to make a significant difference.

*
http://cyb3r.seeall.net/blog/Retards.jpg

Sorry, I couldnt help myself.

But anyways, I would like to mention that Bush isnt a stupid as people would like to believe. Do you have any idea how much math is put into flying fighter jets? Let alone, landing it one on a postage stamp (i.e. an aircraft carrier)?

I mean, think about it for a second. Not only is there a large increase of weight when adding the hook to the back of the fighter jet, but you dont even have a fourth of the normal landing stip when it comes to an aircraft carrier. All of this, when combined, requires a massive amount of knowledge and skill.

Basically, when it all boils down, you're not landing the aircraft anymore... You're just controlling how it crashes.

...Oh, and did I forget to mention that the dude graduated from Yale AND Harvard?

[partyprobe]

Well since obama pretty much one he should declare that wolfgang puck is an original G.

[Russkie]

Well since obama pretty much one he should declare that wolfgang puck is an original G.

I have little, to no recollection as to what you just said... But if you're not going to participate in sharing educational and rational ideas, then dont post... at all.

You're just taking up space.

[Dragon_Of_]

But anyways, I would like to mention that Bush isnt a stupid as people would like to believe. Do you have any idea how much math is put into flying fighter jets? Let alone, landing it one on a postage stamp (i.e. an aircraft carrier)?


you do know it has been widely reported that he was awol during his time in the service, right? and the last i checked he was just in a fligt suit playing dress up on an aircraft carrier as president. i don't recall him flying anything.. ESPECIALLY if he was AWOL during his service for our country. yet he expects our guys t go over there and die so he can get rich off of oil and to impress his daddy? he's worse than a moron. my bad. but hey, if oyu liek the guy that's your thing... i personlaly don't like him ever since he mentioned god like 5 times or so in every speech.. it's praying on the religious minds, imo.. and is not good. i don't lke anyone hwo is god/bible first and country/american people second.. and that is appaarently what mccain's replacement (palin) is.. lets face it, he's gonna die in office more than likely.. and then misses bible thumper will be pres.. not good, imo. i believe in seperation between church and state.

[Zaraki]

first off you all know american people when voting for a president like to know if he/she has a family, of course the policies, how he/she can make their American Dream come true, and their religion. there is nothing wrong With him saying God Bless America, or asking God for us to catch someone. only time I hear God being mentioned is when he says God Bless America. they aren't forcing religion unto people. if they were i'm sure they would of tried to pass laws and would get impeached. our founding fathers were God fearing people and yet they wanted seperation of church and state.


I predict that with either president, the United States of America will fall into ruin. Hahahahahahaha! Screw you americans!


comments like those start to irritate me. if you don't live in the country and have no interest in politics then please move on. you'll only be taking up space.

[Russkie]

you do know it has been widely reported that he was awol during his time in the service, right? and the last i checked he was just in a fligt suit playing dress up on an aircraft carrier as president. i don't recall him flying anything.. ESPECIALLY if he was AWOL during his service for our country.

Well? Is this report true or false? Give me links so I can agree with you quickly.

No, he wasnt just in a flight suit, he landed that sucker. If I can, I might even be able to get a video.

So how does being allegedly AWOL in the past erase the fact that he did land a jet on an aircraft carrier? Now you're not making any sense.

yet he expects our guys t go over there and die so he can get rich off of oil and to impress his daddy? he's worse than a moron. my bad.

You said yourself that the President get about 400k a year, yes? You've even mentioned how little that is, just to run a country. How would President Bush profit from going to war if he isnt even stealing any oil?

Supply and demand is one the basic principles of economics. If the supply is high, and the demand is low, then the price lowers. If the supply is low, and the demand high, then the price rises.

In a Capitalist society such as the United States, it would be clear to everyone if we were taking any oil by force. Go to your local petrol station, and tell me what the cost is of each gallon. The middle east is FULL of oil. If we were taking anything, I'm sure we wouldnt be giving up our children as payment for only a few gallons of the stuff.

but hey, if oyu liek the guy that's your thing... i personlaly don't like him ever since he mentioned god like 5 times or so in every speech.. it's praying on the religious minds, imo.. and is not good.

I dont like the guy, but I also dont hate him. And when it comes to bashing people, I try to be fair (note: when I'm being serious about it).

i don't lke anyone hwo is god/bible first and country/american people second.. and that is appaarently what mccain's replacement (palin) is.. lets face it, he's gonna die in office more than likely.. and then misses bible thumper will be pres.. not good, imo. i believe in seperation between church and state.

Why are you in this country? I'm sure telling you to leave if you dont like it would be a lot easyer said then done... I myself dont have the luxury of coming and going as I please. But to get back on track, I'm going to go ahead and play the "Found Fathers" card again.

Good grief man, this country was founded on religion (basically). Its worked out well this far, why take it away now? I dont care whether you believe in it or not, thats your choice. But some of us here do believe in a God. Okay, great, you dont want to hear us go on about God, by what makes you think we want to listen to your whining too?

Free speach isnt a one sided deal.

[Russkie]

Oh snap, scratch that part about the President landing the jet himself.

As I was looking for videos to prove my point, I learned that he infact did not land it himself. I'm not sure why I got the impression that he did... but all I can say is, "my bad".

[kerona]

i think obama should wen man it is time for a black person lol::D::mad:


I Hope Obama wins but not because of his colour but because i think he is the best of the two in terms of what they plan to do if they get presidency.

His age and vitality also influences my opinion as well as the fact that i'm totally against an unwise person such as Palin for VP, she doesn't even really know what the position entails, neither do i though!

[Zaraki]

Well? Is this report true or false? Give me links so I can agree with you quickly.

No, he wasnt just in a flight suit, he landed that sucker. If I can, I might even be able to get a video.

So how does being allegedly AWOL in the past erase the fact that he did land a jet on an aircraft carrier? Now you're not making any sense.



You said yourself that the President get about 400k a year, yes? You've even mentioned how little that is, just to run a country. How would President Bush profit from going to war if he isnt even stealing any oil?

Supply and demand is one the basic principles of economics. If the supply is high, and the demand is low, then the price lowers. If the supply is low, and the demand high, then the price rises.

In a Capitalist society such as the United States, it would be clear to everyone if we were taking any oil by force. Go to your local petrol station, and tell me what the cost is of each gallon. The middle east is FULL of oil. If we were taking anything, I'm sure we wouldnt be giving up our children as payment for only a few gallons of the stuff.



I dont like the guy, but I also dont hate him. And when it comes to bashing people, I try to be fair (note: when I'm being serious about it).



Why are you in this country? I'm sure telling you to leave if you dont like it would be a lot easyer said then done... I myself dont have the luxury of coming and going as I please. But to get back on track, I'm going to go ahead and play the "Found Fathers" card again.

Good grief man, this country was founded on religion (basically). Its worked out well this far, why take it away now? I dont care whether you believe in it or not, thats your choice. But some of us here do believe in a God. Okay, great, you dont want to hear us go on about God, by what makes you think we want to listen to your whining too?

Free speach isnt a one sided deal.

i think i am in love....j/k but yeah you are right. you don't have to believe in a religion. i've never heard of the president or anyone in the political world try to shove their religion down someone's throat.

[RACHER]

any one can vote but go abama

[Gstar16]

im not sure that america is ready for another republican president plus ne change from where we're at now is for the better...Im Obama all the way...McCain supported Bush way to much when he was running...n has failed to convince me that he wont be another bush

[Dragon_Of_]

Well? Is this report true or false? Give me links so I can agree with you quickly.

well, it was on hte news, and i don't know how i'd seach for it on google, or else i would attempt to find it.


So how does being allegedly AWOL in the past erase the fact that he did land a jet on an aircraft carrier? Now you're not making any sense.

think about it, you're supposed to be comander and chief of the military, how can you expect your troops to folow you when you didn't even serve you're time?


You said yourself that the President get about 400k a year, yes? You've even mentioned how little that is, just to run a country. How would President Bush profit from going to war if he isnt even stealing any oil?

his family IS in the oil buisness, the last i heard.

Supply and demand is one the basic principles of economics. If the supply is high, and the demand is low, then the price lowers. If the supply is low, and the demand high, then the price rises.

this i know, but why aren't we putting more money into alternative fuels and being more "fuel efficient" and putting money into somehting like magnetic motors or compressed air engines, anything to lessen our dependance on oil is a step in the right direction, imo. anything but this stupid iraq war.

In a Capitalist society such as the United States, it would be clear to everyone if we were taking any oil by force. Go to your local petrol station, and tell me what the cost is of each gallon. The middle east is FULL of oil. If we were taking anything, I'm sure we wouldnt be giving up our children as payment for only a few gallons of the stuff.


if you think freeing the iraqi people was our agenda, then i don't know what to tell you... i don't think it was.... and freeing them sure isn't worth trillions of dollars a day, especially when they (iraqi government) want us to withdraw our troops by 2012 or something like that. saw it on yahoo news.

I dont like the guy, but I also dont hate him. And when it comes to bashing people, I try to be fair (note: when I'm being serious about it).

i just don't like his polacies, especially trying to change the constitution so gays can't get married.. i think we have bigger problems in this country than gays getting married.

Why are you in this country? I'm sure telling you to leave if you dont like it would be a lot easyer said then done... I myself dont have the luxury of coming and going as I please. But to get back on track, I'm going to go ahead and play the "Found Fathers" card again.

i don't have the luxory of going anywhere, either no money, and it's a lot harder moving to another country than you think.. i'd be leving behind all i know.. but my opinion on this world is EVERY place sucks, just in different ways. so you tell me to leave the country if i don't like it? i ask you: where do you go if you don't like the world?

Good grief man, this country was founded on religion (basically). Its worked out well this far, why take it away now? I dont care whether you believe in it or not, thats your choice. But some of us here do believe in a God. Okay, great, you dont want to hear us go on about God, by what makes you think we want to listen to your whining too?

i just don't think it's right to make decisions based on religion (for the president i mean) and he made the decision to go to war based on his faith, and samething with stem cells, etc.

Free speach isnt a one sided deal.

no, it is not, but there is also forcing religion onto people, via crosses, signs on the highway, shirts, churches, etc.. if i wanted a sermon i'd waste my time going to church.. remember as they always say "god helps those who help themselve" so what do we need god for? if it says we have to help ourself before god helps us? well, if we helped ourself, then we don't need help anymore....

and i get sick of some christians saying "seperation of church and state is a myth" no it is not, it's in the first ammendment "congress shall make no law repecting an estabolishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

so if a president makes his decisions based on "what god wants" he (or she) is not doing what's best for the american people, and that is wrong, imo.

and it seems most americans don't wnat to hear differeing opinions, yet they spout their garbage, thinking it's their right to say it, yet they forget my right to say "i disagree" so, yes maybe you don't wanna hear what i have to say, but sometimes i don't wanna hear what others have to say about their magic man in the sky, still gotta put up with it, though.. so how is it right that i be silenced and not everyone else?

[Russkie]

Well? Is this report true or false? Give me links so I can agree with you quickly.

well, it was on hte news, and i don't know how i'd seach for it on google, or else i would attempt to find it.

Until you do, I will continue to disagree with you on this.

So how does being allegedly AWOL in the past erase the fact that he did land a jet on an aircraft carrier? Now you're not making any sense.

think about it, you're supposed to be comander and chief of the military, how can you expect your troops to folow you when you didn't even serve you're time?

*Still waiting for links*

You said yourself that the President get about 400k a year, yes? You've even mentioned how little that is, just to run a country. How would President Bush profit from going to war if he isnt even stealing any oil?

his family IS in the oil buisness, the last i heard.

Okay, but what does the money his family makes have to do with what he makes being the President?

Supply and demand is one the basic principles of economics. If the supply is high, and the demand is low, then the price lowers. If the supply is low, and the demand high, then the price rises.

this i know, but why aren't we putting more money into alternative fuels and being more "fuel efficient" and putting money into somehting like magnetic motors or compressed air engines, anything to lessen our dependance on oil is a step in the right direction, imo. anything but this stupid iraq war.

You've sort of changed the subject, but I'll roll with that. What if we are, this very moment, put money and research into finding better fuels? Just because we havent made a breakthrough doesnt necessarily mean we're not doing anything about it.

Now I'm all for bettering society and how we run, and I'm no scientist, but I get the feeling we can only go so far with alternative fuels.

In a Capitalist society such as the United States, it would be clear to everyone if we were taking any oil by force. Go to your local petrol station, and tell me what the cost is of each gallon. The middle east is FULL of oil. If we were taking anything, I'm sure we wouldnt be giving up our children as payment for only a few gallons of the stuff.


if you think freeing the iraqi people was our agenda, then i don't know what to tell you... i don't think it was.... and freeing them sure isn't worth trillions of dollars a day, especially when they (iraqi government) want us to withdraw our troops by 2012 or something like that. saw it on yahoo news.

I would really like to know how you came up with that. No where in the paragraph did I mention anything about agenda. But, now that you've mentioned it, I'll go ahead and say "no".

"Freeing the people" is a good thing, but I personally dont believe thats exactly why we went to war. But I have an idea, and correct me if I'm wrong.

Revenge is a bad thing, but when someone kills 2000+ of your fellow citizens, I'd sure as hell want to rub their nose in the dirt.

I dont like the guy, but I also dont hate him. And when it comes to bashing people, I try to be fair (note: when I'm being serious about it).

i just don't like his polacies, especially trying to change the constitution so gays can't get married.. i think we have bigger problems in this country than gays getting married.

And for the most part, neither do I. Many of his policies can kiss my left butt cheek, but I dont think hes a bad person, nor stupid.

Why are you in this country? I'm sure telling you to leave if you dont like it would be a lot easyer said then done... I myself dont have the luxury of coming and going as I please. But to get back on track, I'm going to go ahead and play the "Found Fathers" card again.

i don't have the luxory of going anywhere, either no money, and it's a lot harder moving to another country than you think.. i'd be leving behind all i know.. but my opinion on this world is EVERY place sucks, just in different ways. so you tell me to leave the country if i don't like it? i ask you: where do you go if you don't like the world?

*Face palm*

Read it again, and when you figure out that I was infact sympathizing with you, let me know. Kay?

Good grief man, this country was founded on religion (basically). Its worked out well this far, why take it away now? I dont care whether you believe in it or not, thats your choice. But some of us here do believe in a God. Okay, great, you dont want to hear us go on about God, by what makes you think we want to listen to your whining too?

i just don't think it's right to make decisions based on religion (for the president i mean) and he made the decision to go to war based on his faith, and samething with stem cells, etc.

Seems to me you're denying the Presidents right to have faith in what he believes in. If thats so, I think thats the wrong kind of thinking.

Fine, I understand you dont want decsions made accordingly to something you yourself dont believe in. But to deny him of his beliefs would basically be denying anyone in the United States their right to practice their own beleifs.

And for the record, I think thats wrong.

Free speach isnt a one sided deal.

no, it is not, but there is also forcing religion onto people, via crosses, signs on the highway, shirts, churches, etc.. if i wanted a sermon i'd waste my time going to church.. remember as they always say "god helps those who help themselve" so what do we need god for? if it says we have to help ourself before god helps us? well, if we helped ourself, then we don't need help anymore....

I will agree with you that there are religios people who do force their beliefs (to an extent or more) on others. But I myself have never felt like that was something that should be done, let alone right. Granted, I will explain my own personal beliefs when asked or if I feel it appropriate, but its up to the listener to decide for him/herself whether I'm right or wrong.

You missunderstand what that means. God will help, but he would like to see some effort in your part.

and i get sick of some christians saying "seperation of church and state is a myth" no it is not, it's in the first ammendment "congress shall make no law repecting an estabolishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

I'm not as familiar with the Bill of Rights as I should be. Would you care to explain this a little further for me?

so if a president makes his decisions based on "what god wants" he (or she) is not doing what's best for the american people, and that is wrong, imo.

Read what I said earlyer about denying anyone religion.

and it seems most americans don't wnat to hear differeing opinions, yet they spout their garbage, thinking it's their right to say it, yet they forget my right to say "i disagree" so, yes maybe you don't wanna hear what i have to say, but sometimes i don't wanna hear what others have to say about their magic man in the sky, still gotta put up with it, though.. so how is it right that i be silenced and not everyone else?

Unfortunately, there are people out in the world who will gladly tell you what they think (whether you ask or not), but rarely listen to what you have to offer. I hope you would agree that I'm not one of these people.

I never said it was right, on the contrary, I think its very wrong.

Oh, and to torment you a little, hes not a man, nor is he in the sky. And I guess I could say he isnt magic either. Whos God are you talking about anyways?

[Dragon_Of_]

Okay, but what does the money his family makes have to do with what he makes being the President?

it means that when gas went up, he could have froze the price at a certian amount (to help the ecomomy) but he didn't, because his family would be making less money. it's probably only down (the last i looked anyway) because they wnat to give the illusion that bush is doing somethng on that front.... but OPEC has cut back oil production to drive the price of oil back up.... not the US' fault, but greedy people's fault. so look for it to go back up soon. :(



You've sort of changed the subject, but I'll roll with that. What if we are, this very moment, put money and research into finding better fuels? Just because we havent made a breakthrough doesnt necessarily mean we're not doing anything about it.

Now I'm all for bettering society and how we run, and I'm no scientist, but I get the feeling we can only go so far with alternative fuels.

they all ready have the compressed air car, and they have magnetic power that can power a house:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvB3PiPBozU



I would really like to know how you came up with that. No where in the paragraph did I mention anything about agenda. But, now that you've mentioned it, I'll go ahead and say "no".

"Freeing the people" is a good thing, but I personally dont believe thats exactly why we went to war. But I have an idea, and correct me if I'm wrong.

Revenge is a bad thing, but when someone kills 2000+ of your fellow citizens, I'd sure as hell want to rub their nose in the dirt.

i don't htink going to war with a country (even though they were afganies who attacked us, not iraqi's) so what are we doing in iraq?

anyway; why should a whole country have to pay for what some radicals did? we wouldn't wanna pay the price for what our government did, so why make other people who live in Iraq pay the price? not all Iraqi's are bad, ya know? same thing with the whole middle east, not all of them are bad.




Read it again, and when you figure out that I was infact sympathizing with you, let me know. Kay?

it didn't seem like it.



Seems to me you're denying the Presidents right to have faith in what he believes in. If thats so, I think thats the wrong kind of thinking.

no, i don't want his decisions to be based on faith when it comes to running the country.... and i don't think it's right to deny someone the same rights as someone else mearly becuase their beleifs say it's wrong. doesn't make it wrong just because people believe it...

Fine, I understand you dont want decsions made accordingly to something you yourself dont believe in. But to deny him of his beliefs would basically be denying anyone in the United States their right to practice their own beleifs.

and again, that's not what i'm not wanting him to do.. i don't want him to make decisions for this country based on his faith, that to me is WRONG, becuase not everyone believes the same thing.






You missunderstand what that means. God will help, but he would like to see some effort in your part.

but when you have tried and failed where is god? why does it (god) help some and not othrs? why do some get a miracle and live and others don't? aren't they just as important as the other person?



I'm not as familiar with the Bill of Rights as I should be. Would you care to explain this a little further for me?

what i take it to mean is that they cannot make laws based on religious "evidence" and on the same effect they can't force religious people ot adhear to such law.. for example IMO thta would mean they cannot ban gay marrage, because all people who are against it have is their religious beliefs/it's "wrong", YET on the other hand it would be illegal for the state to force a minister to preside over a gay wedding if he/she protests, same goes with having it in a church. i don't see where they would be able to force someone to do that, and imo it would be wrong. but now a government official i can see forcing because they're supposed to adhear to the law and not be prejudice.


Oh, and to torment you a little, hes not a man, nor is he in the sky. And I guess I could say he isnt magic either. Whos God are you talking about anyways?

it was a figure of speech.. and with that statement i meant all of the "god's" that people worship... i have no problem with faith, the ones i have problem with are the ones who try to force it on others or think their faith makes them better than me somehow/want the whole world to bow to their god.. it's like some religious people are little hitliers for their god.. and it's not comforting to me... what ever happened to "free will"?

[zrikin]

dont misanthropic my biased opinion but i like them both but...im voting for obama because he comes with the truth...now dont start trippin and callen me races any kind or any race can come with the truth

[Russkie]

it means that when gas went up, he could have froze the price at a certian amount (to help the ecomomy) but he didn't, because his family would be making less money. it's probably only down (the last i looked anyway) because they wnat to give the illusion that bush is doing somethng on that front.... but OPEC has cut back oil production to drive the price of oil back up.... not the US' fault, but greedy people's fault. so look for it to go back up soon. :(

The President is only a face. He does have powers to do things, but he is not in charge of everything. Example: The price of petrol.

they all ready have the compressed air car, and they have magnetic power that can power a house:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvB3PiPBozU

I thank you for that video, it was really interesting to watch. But I must add, that was only for electricity. Motor vehicles burn fuel to turn the wheels and propell themselves forward/backward.

And I would also like to add that there are many people looking into that who are very "cautious" about the whole thing. The guy who made it might be very confident, but until its proven, it could all be a scam/con of some kind. (Although I hope it isnt).

i don't htink going to war with a country (even though they were afganies who attacked us, not iraqi's) so what are we doing in iraq?

Unfortunately, our enemies are not located in a single country. From what you might be able to tell, they hide among women and children.

anyway; why should a whole country have to pay for what some radicals did? we wouldn't wanna pay the price for what our government did, so why make other people who live in Iraq pay the price? not all Iraqi's are bad, ya know? same thing with the whole middle east, not all of them are bad.

Girls are now allowed to go to school. People are now allowed to vote for their leaders. There are less and less "honor killings" and brutal beating of women. Hell, I remember hearing on the news about a year ago that the first pizza shop opened up. Pizza dude... who doesnt like pizza?

My point is, the people if Iraq have gotten more from this war than us.

it didn't seem like it.

I'm sorry you got that impession. I thought I made myself clear.

no, i don't want his decisions to be based on faith when it comes to running the country.... and i don't think it's right to deny someone the same rights as someone else mearly becuase their beleifs say it's wrong. doesn't make it wrong just because people believe it...

Why not? What, in your opinion, is wrong with faith?

and again, that's not what i'm not wanting him to do.. i don't want him to make decisions for this country based on his faith, that to me is WRONG, becuase not everyone believes the same thing.

Its a fact that everyone doesnt believe the same thing as him (let alone me). But I still fail to see why its not okay for him to make decisions based on the things he believes in. ESPECIALLY when many of those beliefs pertain to doing the right thing.

but when you have tried and failed where is god? why does it (god) help some and not othrs? why do some get a miracle and live and others don't? aren't they just as important as the other person?

As Koopa once asked me in a debate, "if you poke a beaver, and it bites your arm off, will God give you back your arm if you pray for it?". At the time, I didnt really have an answer (as you can see why). But I think I have one now.

What if the answer was "no"? You put yourself in that mess, now get yourself out. Granted, God will help if he sees its necessary, but he wont do the things you can do for yourself.

what i take it to mean is that they cannot make laws based on religious "evidence" and on the same effect they can't force religious people ot adhear to such law.. for example IMO thta would mean they cannot ban gay marrage, because all people who are against it have is their religious beliefs/it's "wrong", YET on the other hand it would be illegal for the state to force a minister to preside over a gay wedding if he/she protests, same goes with having it in a church. i don't see where they would be able to force someone to do that, and imo it would be wrong. but now a government official i can see forcing because they're supposed to adhear to the law and not be prejudice.

Whether this point of veiw is wrong or not, I cannot decide as of this moment. I will have to look into and think about it a little more.

it was a figure of speech.. and with that statement i meant all of the "god's" that people worship... i have no problem with faith, the ones i have problem with are the ones who try to force it on others or think their faith makes them better than me somehow/want the whole world to bow to their god.. it's like some religious people are little hitliers for their god.. and it's not comforting to me... what ever happened to "free will"?

I know it was, which was why I said it that way.

But I agree with you. I too dislike it when another person forces his/her beliefs on another person. However, I hope you dont see me doing the same thing. I am merely stating what I believe.

[justblazze]

obama won ..........

[Russkie]

obama won ..........

He sure did. Well, heres to 4 years of Socialism.

Cheers.

[spirit]

He sure did. Well, heres to 4 years of Socialism.

Cheers.You're being way too drammatic.

On the other hand, I'm happy that my favorite party won these elections ;)

[Russkie]

You're being way too drammatic.

On the other hand, I'm happy that my favorite party won these elections ;)

This is why I no longer have faith in humanity.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm127/levlongman/Motivational%20Posters/communism.jpg

[quietchat]

Okay, a president has been elected, so I'm closing this thread. Obama for the win though, here's hoping for 4 years of progress, followed by a second term.