Diesm or Naturalism

[leerock89]

Here we go folks and simple question for you out there. Which is it? Are you one to believe in diesm(A transcendent God, as a First Cause, created the universe but then left it to run on its own. God is thus not immanent, not fully personal, not sovereign over human affairs, not providential.) or naturalism(Matter exists eternally and is all there is. God does not exist. The cosmos exists as a uniformity of cause and effect in a closed system.) Pick your brain properly before answering this one. Or do you believe in nothing but yourself and what you can do?

Now there are two forms of naturalism, methodical or metaphysical. Metaphysical naturalism refers to the metaphysical belief that the natural world (i.e. the universe) is all that exists and, therefore, nothing supernatural exists. Methodical naturalism refers to the methodological assumption that explanations of observable effects are practical and useful only when they hypothesize natural causes (i.e., specific mechanisms, not indeterminate miracles)

I am a methodical naturalist. I do not believe in God or an original creator. The universe exist because it IS and there isn't a being out there that created it. Science, philosophy and logic dictates that this universe is because it is, not because of creation. But because of evolution I do believe there is a way to achieve a higher state of mind. So that would make me an agnostic methodical naturalist... I think...

[Viduus]

Naturalism, easily. Everything there is to know can be solved by science and mathematics, whatever we don't know just hasn't been found out yet.

There is a part of me that's willing to aknowledge that there's a slim possibility that a god-like figure exists, but if there is it's not in any form or shape that we know of.

[a2ng0d]

Diesm. I'll tell you why.

What separates you from a rock? Is it your ability to move? Ability to feed? Ability to grow? To reproduce? The answer, scientifically or otherwise, is Life. You are alive. The rock isn't.

Now, what separates you from the rest of the organisms? Your ability to think, to express your ideas. To feel emotion.
I believe this is your Soul. The existence of a soul is something unexplainable by scientific means. Your soul makes all your decisions. It is your originality, your individuality.

Yes, all of our movement and thought is based on electrical signals. But when you say "I love you" to your spouse, or when you're feeling the utmost of rage upon your hated enemies. When you're tasting bitter tears of despair, is it all but a mere electrical signal? An electrical signal sent out by an advanced sentient life form who will ultimately become nothing but dust and shadow?

I was raised Catholic, but don't get me wrong: I am very open minded to science, reason, and logic. I believe in Evolution, and I am open to other theories. I believe in dinosaurs and neanderthals and the like. But when you tell me there is no God, that the cosmos has just...been there for eternity or that there was a random explosion out of nowhere that created the universe? are you serious? Or, that when you die, you become a fertilizer in the dirt while all the memories of your life just...fade over time. Was your life meaningless? Those thoughts are too depressing for me.

[Russkie]

I'll tell you what I believe, as long as I dont get piled on.

Diesm, and the reason for that is pretty much what a2ng0d said. I do not believe that the universe just came to be, or has always been. I do not believe something as phenomenally complex as a cell or a molecule could come into existance without the help of a being with a much vaster understand and knowledge of things.

Again, just like what a2ng0d said, I am open to science. I am more than willing to play with all the neat toys and information it can provide for me. I enjoy reading science magazines and watching the Discovery chanel. But it just makes sense to me that everything we touch, see, hear, smell, and taste all came from a guy alot smarter than I am and he happens to know what hes doing.

[leerock89]

Found this somewhere...chew on this; God didnt concieve me... my family did. God isnt responsible for my accomplishments, I am. If he truely does exist, I shouldnt praise him... He should praise people like me.

[Viduus]

I should add in here that I haven't seen a single reason to think that a god-being exists. Are there unexplained things in the world? Yes, of course, but pointing and yelling "That's God!" seems a little... hasty.

[a2ng0d]

I should add in here that I haven't seen a single reason to think that a god-being exists. Are there unexplained things in the world? Yes, of course, but pointing and yelling "That's God!" seems a little... hasty.

But wouldn't pointing and yelling about anything seem hasty? (BIG BANG for example).

[athrun0017]

But wouldn't pointing and yelling about anything seem hasty? (BIG BANG for example).

not necessarly.. the point of yelling or pointing something out is to get something across.. you want people to believe or understand things the way you do. whatever the case maybe.

[Russkie]

Found this somewhere...chew on this;

God didnt concieve me... my family did. God isnt responsible for my accomplishments, I am. If he truely does exist, I shouldnt praise him... He should praise people like me.

God may not have physicaly concieved you, but he created man, and what man makes, God receives credit as well. If you happen to save the life of a doctor who specialized in, say, open heart surgery. Then from that moment forward, you technicaly receive some credit for his good deeds.

Now, God being the good guy here, you might bring up the argument that there are alot of bad people out there who do alot of bad things. Does God receive the bad credit? No, and the answer for that is simple. God is perfect, he cannot make a mistake, God is not evil, and God CAN NOT do evil things.

However, there is this one guy who happens to be a total jerk that you may have heard of. He doesnt like you, me, or any living thing with a physical body. One of his most common names is Satan, and he is here to disrupt your life and cause you pain. The evil in this world comes from one, and only one source, and that source is the adversary.

Again, the credit of the accomplishments you make in this life will also be given to God. God wants you to do great things, because he loves you.

[Viduus]

But wouldn't pointing and yelling about anything seem hasty? (BIG BANG for example).Unless you have some sort of evidence that it can happen, yes, it would be. There's been many studies done to support that, for example, the Big Bang can and did happen, the specific details however will always be sketchy since it occured billions of years ago.

What proof is there of a god? Other than someone saying God spoke to me?



Russkie, out of sheer curiosity, are you one of those people who feels like they need to "save" everyone who doesn't believe in god by getting them to convert or whatever? Just wondering...

[Koopaking]

I have thought about this for a while... and I suppose I would fall into more of the Naturalism category. I don't believe in a god or divine creator... I do believe that science can do a pretty damn good job of explaining a lot of things that are attributed to a divine creator, but only as much as we can work it out to explain.

The way I see it, we are here. We were somehow created, we are somehow alive, we can somehow feel emotion and live our lives. And I like to leave it at that. The problem with humans is that they have a need to explain EVERYTHING. Can't logically explain something? Make up something. Humans just find it horribly difficult to say "This is just the way things are, and I can't really explain it" and just leave it.

Take note that both religion and science are ideas devised by man to try and explain things they didn't understand, so who knows, they could both be wrong. Although I am sort of meh about the existence of a god, I am much opposed to the structure of religion, which extends beyond "where did we come from" and tries to force ways of life and behavior on you. People like to have something to believe in, be it religion or science, but the problem with a lot of religious types is that they cannot keep their beliefs to themselves and try and force it on others. I could explain many other grievances of that nature, but perhaps another time.

"Where did we come from?"
"Where do we go when we die?"
"How did this get the way it was?"

I say: Does it matter how it got there? Does it matter how it is the way it is? Think about it. Centuries ago, people had no idea what gravity was. Then a guy named Isaac Newton explained all about physics. Did that change the way gravity worked? Nooo, it was the same it had always been. Say one day we invent some time machine and we go back and discover exactly how the universe was created. Good job. What will come out of it? Not much but just the smugness that we now know.

So I guess when it comes down to it, I really don't give a crap about how we got here or where we go after we die. I am going to live as I please, and enjoy my life.

Or do you believe in nothing but yourself and what you can do?

This what I believe. I sometimes think about existence and whatnot, but I honestly have better things I can do rather then dwell on something that will most likely never be proved or disproved within the indefinite future.

[a2ng0d]

God may not have physicaly concieved you, but he created man, and what man makes, God receives credit as well. If you happen to save the life of a doctor who specialized in, say, open heart surgery. Then from that moment forward, you technicaly receive some credit for his good deeds.

Now, God being the good guy here, you might bring up the argument that there are alot of bad people out there who do alot of bad things. Does God receive the bad credit? No, and the answer for that is simple. God is perfect, he cannot make a mistake, God is not evil, and God CAN NOT do evil things.

However, there is this one guy who happens to be a total jerk that you may have heard of. He doesnt like you, me, or any living thing with a physical body. One of his most common names is Satan, and he is here to disrupt your life and cause you pain. The evil in this world comes from one, and only one source, and that source is the adversary.

Again, the credit of the accomplishments you make in this life will also be given to God. God wants you to do great things, because he loves you.

Why, I never thought I'd ever see the combination of 'Great, You, and Love' in the same post by you, Russkie. ^_^

[quietchat]

I would have to be a Methodical Naturalist. I have some pretty strange views, for example I believe in spirits and the presence of souls, yet not an all powerful being. I also reject the idea, that the only reason that peace exists in the world is because of universal law by a creator. Rather, I feel the concept of god is mearly a way to convince people that there is a reward and punishment for what you have done in life. If you are able to commit an act of generosity or of pain, then you demonstrate free thinking without the leash of god around your neck, guiding your actions.

[analogZero]

well I suppose I'd fall under the category of methodical naturalist. In a way I see the existence of a great power such as a god in the natural elements of life. As much as there is in the universe or there beyond and as little as we know it only seems right to give credit that there's something greater beyond our sight, but we've advanced quite far and I only see prospect in everything that exists. The mysteries that constantly unravel are filled with possibility and intrigue, and lead us further into our search. I sometimes see our quest for knowledge as a search for god. A means of becoming god's equal in it's omniscience. We try to break the universe apart and qualify it in odd and unusual ways with string theory and quantum theory and the likes, but the composition of an entire universe seems as something of a god itself. That which exists is, and always will be a greater entity filled with far more knowledge than anything else. It bears all the processes of a science and all the mystery of a deity. I don't really see why people make such drastic separations.

[AyumiBee]

I don't believe in God I believe in Nature. I think there are supernatural things (maybe they were created by an other more intelligent beings). I was always wondering about Man in Blacks last picture when the camera zooms out of the Earth and you can see a univers and after that a big hand what is playing with the small balls (the planets and the universe). Sometimes I think that what if I'm a doll and something is making my movements? And it's not me...

[jamjfly]

Diesm. Plain and simple. I could go into greater detail, but I don't think people would read it even if I did.