Internet And The Economy

[partyprobe]

I created this topic because i wanted to see if anybody else things that the internet is having a negative effect on the economy with you being able to get free downloads and other stuff rather than go and buy it. I think it is having a negative effect on many parts of our economy like the music and movie sales. Yes i would rather get free movies and cds but i still go out and by dvds. If you ask yourself why unlike this website on those dvds you get extras. I am the type of person that loves the commentary and art that comes on the dvd but you don't get that online. This is becoming a major problem i think young people would rather get stuff free then buy it, i don't blame us we are just like that. But now look at what is happening thanks to websites like these some of our anime companies are shutting down because of sales (not saying this website is bad, i love it). How are we going to sit there and complain about prices and how bad the economy is when we are a major factor in why it is so bad.

[Sadrith]

I see what you mean ut some of the shows on here you don't see at the store. I still uy movies everyonce and an a while ut I don't have the cash to very often

[Koopaking]

It's their own fault, if they want me to pay for a movie(regular movie, not anime) when I can just get it from a torrent, I am saving $20 off buying a DVD and get to use it for food or gas or shampoo or something. I win.

The only anime companies that are shutting down are the licensing companies, Geneon is the only company I can think of that has shut down recently.

[partyprobe]

Yes but at a time those dvds did not cost some much. Yes i would do the same thing but if it is a movie that i really want i would buy it. But they are now being forced to charge that much because not that many people are going out there any more to buy them. I was reading an article that there are a few companies that are indager of have to close. Yes alot has to do with people wanting to save their money for real needs but that dosent mean the should go and download it, there are other options.When i get the chance i will post the link for that article.

[Koopaking]

Actually DVDs have been DROPPING in price. When DVDs first came out, I remember some were 30-40 bucks for just one movie, and the player itself was like $500! As DVD players began to overtake VHS as the new video format, they started to lower in price down to the 15-20 dollars for a DVD we have them today, and now you can get a DVD player for less than $40. The same principle is being used today with Blu Ray, they started out around $50 each, and they are slowly lowering, you can get them for like $25 now I think.

So you got it backwards, DVD prices are dropping, not rising.

[partyprobe]

You got me there but if they keep droping then wouldnt they have a easyer time sellin. then why do people still have the erge to go and download them if you can buy a new one cheap or get a used on even cheaper. But when you look at music store after store is beiing shut down i lost both my cd stores i use to go to, because of sites like limewire sharebear and bitlord. Yes the music isnt cheap but new cds run for about $10 now. I have downloaded some music but i do buy cds for cd player in my room. Now on the music topic i completly understand that is an uphill argument. there really is no point for me to buy cds its easyer to go online, but i buy them for one reason and that is to keep money flowing.

[Koopaking]

First off Limewire and Sharebear aren't websites, they are Peer to Peer file sharing networks. And I don't think I have ever bought a CD in my entire life. I don't think I have ever payed for any music at all, ever. I could care less about the American music industry, they are stupid, and the only American music I listen to is Weird Al. And still even if DVDs do get dirt cheap, you will still have to get up, go to the store, buy the movie, and then come back home, and watch it. You can get it straight on your computer for free and don't have to anything but wait for it to download. People who are willing to go to the store to buy movies, go and buy them. But lazy people like me like to get stuff for free.

[Ryuuzaki]

First off Limewire and Sharebear aren't websites, they are Peer to Peer file sharing networks. And I don't think I have ever bought a CD in my entire life. I don't think I have ever payed for any music at all, ever. I could care less about the American music industry, they are stupid, and the only American music I listen to is Weird Al. And still even if DVDs do get dirt cheap, you will still have to get up, go to the store, buy the movie, and then come back home, and watch it. You can get it straight on your computer for free and don't have to anything but wait for it to download. People who are willing to go to the store to buy movies, go and buy them. But lazy people like me like to get stuff for free.

I'm with you on that. The only music I've ever bought was years ago when L Arc N Ciel "Smile" came out, that and a few Red Hot Chili Peppers, but now theres no need for me when I can find all of that music on the net, free. Like you said, you have to go out, but the damn thing, come back, and then watch it, which is very time consuming, and if it's something that was very disappointing (like an anime that wasn't what you thought it was) you would have just wasted your cash. I personally, love how I can get music and anime, and many other things, free online without wait (unless the dl takes forever).

[partyprobe]

This is why it is an uphill argument for me true it is easyer to get them on your computer but dam im for a loss of words. Yes i would rather get free but s**t im lost. The music topic is so one sided the only real people still buying cds are older people and hardly any young people, and i think that is a problem. Me im a half and half i will by something if it is worth it but most of the time i do what everyone else does go download it. But back on topic even if you dont care the music industrie is tacking a beating and that is not to good for the economy. When is the line drawn look at what you can get for free or at cheaper prices online. It isnt going to stop and in my opinon i think something should be done to stop this if people know best. Yes it might not make things better for you but for a whole group of people might benifit

[analogZero]

Now I'm no economist, but here's what the way I do my thang.
movies: if a movie is truly good, I buy it after I've gone out of my way to see it in theatres (in which it better be damn well worth it) or waited for it to come out on DVD (but rented from independent store or downloaded a torrent. I'm not wasting my time with some idiot prick that likes to jerk off while he tapes the newest hit movie on his digicam). I could give less of a sh*t if a billions upon billions of dollars industry cries when it doesn't rake in 20 million the first weekend it opened. boo fn hoo.
Music: I'll gladly buy a cd of a smaller band, because they're often label free, or chuggin' along and a few bucks from a fan is well worth it if I can get it at a show (shows and touring are often where bands make the majority of their money). Otherwise, if I'm going to get some music I get a vynil press of that motha and play it so I can chill out and enjoy it. then any mp3's I have of that particular album are considered legal backups! I won't buy a cd of a major label band, because I'm paying a major label that leeches off the success of people that actually have talent. Again, boo hoo, sony/bmg and universal aren't making as many millions of dollars as they used too.
Anime: Anime fuel and sites of the like are cool because I can check out and sample hundreds of potential anime loves. When I like a series it goes on the wishlist and slowly they are accumulated into the library.
You can wonder why the economy's bad and people resort to stealing and pirating movies and music, or you can wonder why the people who produce major label music and hollywood blockbusters are rolling in billions of dollars. a crying shame. I always wonder why when I go to the movies I have to pay $5 bucks for a small thing of popcorn that would cost me 25 cents to make at home.

[partyprobe]

You are alot like me when you choose to by something or just get it online. Yes they are making alot of money to cry about it but there are some problems when we download to much. I support websites like these they give you a test drive of what you will get out of the movie. I would watch something here then go buy it for the extras and the better quality. Yes a movie better be dam good to buy it but i went to see 300 three times in the movies and then bought it and that didnt really wow me with the extras. Another industry people want to jip is the gaming area. Im tired of my friends moding their ps3 and xbox 360 so they can download a game then play it. So what if they cost $50 or more, most likely if your going to buy it keep it for awhile if not learn how to rent. Games are worth keeping i still have ps1 games because they are still better then some of the s**t that is comming out now.

[Koopaking]

I actually go and buy games. Because you really can't decide you want a new Wii game and then download it off the internet and play it on your Wii. I do indeed buy the DVD of a movie that is truly good. And I smuggle my own food into movie theaters. I have sneaked into many movies without ever even paying either. And as for music, I agree that the big record labels are stupid. And I can't stand the millions of people who buy all this crap and treat these untalented "musicians" as demigods, and need to know about every detail and aspect of their lives.

[partyprobe]

Well said but what is your aspect on those people that mod their systems so they can download their games for free do you see something wrong with that, Or do you just shrugg your shoulders.I like how they dont accept Systems that have been tampered with at xbox and sony because they are trying to keep things in order. It also knid of forces to buy something else but its not really for that purpose it is mainly so people just buy stuff the right way and dont get to curiose.

[Koopaking]

I don't know how to mod game systems to download free games, but as long as downloading games off of a virtual store is offered, people will hack it. And if they try to safeguard from such things, people will always bypass it. The software pirates and the software makers have a sort of rivalry that has been going on since computers were invented, they make something, the hackers hack it, they improve security, the hackers bypass it eventually. There is really no way to absolutely stop all pirating other than them giving up and saying "Ok all of our games are free from now on"

[partyprobe]

Well alot of the hackers out there say they hack so companies and the government fix the problem so nobody to get in i understand that, but when you start to steal that is just abusing your gift that you have. Not saying i would abuse the power i have but you start to ruin it for all people in the end. Like when hackers alter pages on myspace that is rediculise people start to injoy the website less and less. In stead of trying to steal why dont they find a job that could use that skill. Of course this isnt having the biggest effect it is a problem. In the end we are left with people that run around and do what they want, do you think we should keep these people from doing it by starting a group to counter these attacks with other hackers.

[Koopaking]

Much like trying to stop most things in the internet, it's near impossible. Millions of people, Billions of websites, it's the reason why they it's so hard to stop piracy. I am honestly indifferent because I am neither a software developer nor a hacker.

[partyprobe]

I see your point that it cant be stopped. Now that we got that topic passed us there are some positive thing that the internet has given us that can also keep the economy going. For ebay you have to pay shipping and handaling. And most people just buy and have it delivered to their house maybe at a hire price but they are making more than they would if they drove done to get it. but those people then dont have to worry about gas prices. If people improve the internet dvds, cds and games all could be downloaded instintly rather than sold at a store. there are already alot of places that do that but they cant always get the licence for it and it might end up being cheaper then getting it at the store.

[Koopaking]

yeah but that still requires you to pay money. I opt to go for the way that leaves me richer and feeling slightly smug knowing that I did something illegal.

[partyprobe]

lol I dont really know what to say to that.Lets move onto a more positive note with the internet making money because of PORN. I know there are people that are paying those 1 dollar fees a day and yes they are flowing money into the economy and i say keep watching that porn. Yes it is a filthy idea that, that money is coming from someone that just beat it but wat can u do. And i shame the people that watch the 12 second previews 1st thats it and 2nd no comment. What are your thoughs of porn be a good thing.

[monsoon 10]

lol I dont really know what to say to that.Lets move onto a more positive note with the internet making money because of PORN. I know there are people that are paying those 1 dollar fees a day and yes they are flowing money into the economy and i say keep watching that porn. Yes it is a filthy idea that, that money is coming from someone that just beat it but wat can u do. And i shame the people that watch the 12 second previews 1st thats it and 2nd no comment. What are your thoughs of porn be a good thing.

I'm sorry you were saying.

[Koopaking]

Porn is great, but I will never pay for it. I get all my porn for free. Much of it is hentai.

[partyprobe]

:oo: that makes me feel tingly

[Corwin]

Yes Koopa, prices may have dropped some in the beginning but now they are going back up, not b/c we aren't really buying as much since it's all free online, it's more that those industries have come to expect a certain lvl of profit and a certain percentage rise in that lvl every year, now they aren't seeing it, so the dvd's that had dropped to $15/each have now gone back up to $20-24/each. Yet despite all that, and the easy accessibility of material online, even those extras you like partyprobe, I still go out and purchase any series I want on dvd, I buy any manga I want to read, any books I'm interested in, any cd's that have caught my attention. As far as I'm concerned, the only ones really hurting the music and movie industries are themselves, I look at the internet as a way to sample any merchandise I'm interested in, sort of like going to blockbuster or netflix and renting something. I check it out and if I like it, I start purchasing the dvd, cd, book, manga, game, etc. But rather than work to keep their prices low, they keep raising them, partly to help cover the development and distribution costs of Blu-ray and HD versions which cost more, since they can't reasonably expect people to pay $60 for a single movie, they break that extra cost up and attach it to the normal media formats. If they didn't do this, more people would be inclined to purchase the media in it's original format. Granted b/c I'm not rich, when I do purchase certain series, at least ones that don't usually make it to the US, I go through Ebay, and save myself a bunch of money on box sets. Besides, half of America's youth doesn't seem to understand the concept of torrents, ddl's, p2p, and other forms of file sharing well enough to pirate anything so the claims that they are losing business to the internet seem somewhat spurious, it's just the industries way of trying to build a case against file sharing without having to put in millions of dollars at the moment on legal action. Also, if they lower the cost of movies at the theater, maybe more people would go instead of watching them online. Personally I like watching movies in the theater, the experience is nice, and it's fun to see stuff right after it comes out as opposed to waiting 9 months for a dvd release, but I'm not going to pay $10 to sit in a theater and then be asked to pay for food and a drink, all the while having to deal w/ 200 stupid people who won't shut the hell up, when I can wait for it to come out on dvd, pay $4, and watch it in the peace and quiet of my own home where I already have snacks and drinks and a fraction of the cost. Basically, as I've stated throughout this rant, the only one screwing the media industry, is the media industry.

[Koopaking]

DVDs come out after 4 months nowadays

[Corwin]

yeah I know, although not all do, it was just an exaggerated example, although years ago, it did take 9-18 months for a movie to get from the theaters to home media, I think some of that has to do w/ costs at the theater, they know not many people are going to theaters, so it's in the companies best interest to get the movies out to home media as fast as possible w/o ruining box office sales, so that they can cash in on all the ppl that are tired of paying $10/ticket to see a movie

[partyprobe]

DVDs come out after 4 months nowadays

WOW koopa that was short response compared to his speech.
I do not disagree with what you said i think you hit it on the dot. But the industry is killing it self making single set dvds when the complete collection is being sold cheaper and for music that is a lost cause it will always go on and will never stop.But there are major problem coming from what you said sure alot of us young people dont know what we are doing. Alot of us dont even know what is going on in politics but if something is free they will jump on the offer, even if it cost people that buy their stuff to have to pay more.Yes the movies may be a hassal but i go at last viewing to solve that problem and for the food and drink bottled water. Its just the movies has that special something that makes you want to go. Now that bueray is cheaper i will be buying so i can play it on my ps3. Sure they can over price it if they want less people will end up downloading it and there will be people that by it. Most of this argument is evolved around how much money young people have to spend. I dont know why alot of people sit home instead of getting a job so you can by things that you want and show off.

[analogZero]

I dont know why alot of people sit home instead of getting a job so you can by things that you want and show off.

"life isn't about buying material goods"
"no, it's about stealing material goods while others aren't looking!"
-frylock and ignignoct


My collection of DVD's would be modest in description. I buy something because I know I'm going to want to watch it again and again, thus saving me on the amount of times I'd have to rent it. I don't get to in to extras and such, they weigh themselves a little boring from time to time, but I do appreciate the quality. My DVD's aren't on display, but rather piled uncomfortably on a shelf in a randomized order that I'm sure only I can figure out. I'd hardly say I show them off, and while I do have a good job that pays me what I need, I don't want to be throwing my money away on things that are going to need to be replaced 5-10 years down the road. I still got cassettes that I listen to, and records. Heck, my copy of empire strikes back is on VHS.

On the topic of this HD and blueray stuff, I think that it's one of the best modern day marketing jokes. Well the tv end of it at least. The majority of high def tvs that come out, are poor quality, and can't hold up a proper bit depth much less one that would allow for you to get the most out of your HD feed. On most LCD's, for example, those bright vivid colours you get bleed, making blobs of colour on your screen. In my opinion it's not that it's grossly underdeveloped, because I've seen a handful of tv's and displays that can manage high definition pictures, but the vast majority of them can't. Anything flat panel is being sold off as if it's some super machine, when in fact the picture on most of them is gross. Perhaps it's just that I have to look at impressive screens all day that I notice this, but at times it just surprises me that so many people buy these horrible tvs just because they look impressive...that is until it's turned on.

[Koopaking]

The TV is use in my room is about a 30 or 35 inch TUBE Television. I think the date on the back is 1984. This TV has been passed down through my family for over two decades. It's still a pretty good TV too.

[partyprobe]

Im pretty sure we have dragged this topic through the dirt going back and forth but im not sure to say next. We have torn apart the music and dvd topic and now tvs here we go. If any thing tvs are getting worse than before. i have a tv from 2000 and my ps3 looks amazing on it and when i put it on my new tv it looks terrible. I understand not all tvs are meant for gaming but when i buy a 3000 dollar tv that s**t better play what ever i want it to. Even koopa had a point i have a clasic turn nob in my room and it is not as dark as that new hi def tv.Most of the options they give me i dont know what to do with because i cant afford half the stuff the options are used for. I dont know why they have to charge me so much for something that really isnt that great.But for some reason i bought that tv because watching normal tv looks and make feels good. Sure we have swayed the topic away from the internet by this deals with the economy so let this conversation flow.

[analogZero]

didn't mean to sway things, but the blueray thing is a waste at this current time of consumer product purchasing. Only the rich and knowledgable will get the most out of this at the moment. Those folks at bestbuy may not be working on commision, but if they don't push sh*t out the door they get their asses fired. incentive to bs and hype, I think so.
back to the internet, by all means.

[Corwin]

I don't know that any of it is irrelevant right now, I think it's just like analogzero said, it's one thing to want to get this stuff to get all the fun new features and the super high def picture, but if the salespeople aren't going to stick w/ truth in advertising, ur never going to get what you actually need to make it all work, then of course that just means the store has to deal w/ returns, and then the manufacturer has to deal w/ buybacks, and no one really gets what they want in the end, rather than racing towards an imaginary finish line before the other companies beat them there, they'd be better off slowing down and getting the whole things working properly, I mean I'd love a new flat panel HD tv, but if I'm going to have to spend $10k on a tv and then another $200 on added peripherals to my game system to get the HD link up, then it's not really worth it, I hate the fact that when the next gen systems came out initially they touted HD tv's as the only way to really play the systems, that tells me that by the time the next set of systems comes out, they won't even play on the older tvs, they'll only have HD linkups, and personally I hope they've figured out all this HD, Blu-ray crap by that time so that I can actually afford something that works, I imagine DVD's will also be where VHS is right now, more of a recordable media format than one purchased to view, I imagine everyone will be watching Blu-ray for the most part in a few years, assuming of course HD DVD doesn't make a comeback and start the fight up again

[Koopaking]

I think HD DVD is pretty much dead by this point. If Wal-Mart doesn't have your support... you are gone anyways.

[illuma]

That is true i mean nowadays people are only thinking on how much they can save, while at the same time thinking about how much. Walmart since they use shifty ways to get goods, you know what you did Walmart, they can sell in huge quantities while still making it cheap. The people who view off these sights are not totally at fault it is the advertising and availability of the product. if it is not made conveniently and popular of coarse people are going to just watch it free instead of buying it in the store. Some shows that you want to watch here are not even in stores, and some are just too costly. If they don't want to wither away like a flower, businesses have to make sure that the product helps both the consumer and the themselves.

[partyprobe]

True that people are trying to save for needs and not wants but the balance in prices is now shifting. Look gas and food are rising with clothing and now technology we have is dropping at a steady pace. When ever i look at dvds, tvs and game systems the prices seen to get better and better but when i look at that and say '' dam thats a deal'' and i still cant get it thats not their fault. They are trying everything they can to sell this product but we save our money for needs, yes alot of the stuff they are selling is not worth it but how are a few items going to run our lives. So what if we need this and that there are other options to get those things my family now has a garden for fuits and vegetables and have an apple tree in the neighbors yard. I dont know how at this pace people are going to manage there money with all the prices rising on goods that we need. We have f**ked our selves because with the conditions this world is in i hope im not alive when things erupt.

[Corwin]

yeah that does seem to be a problem, I don't know how the manufacturer's of a lot of stuff plan to keep in business when their prices are rising like crazy every year and the cost of living is going up but no one is really making more money than before, I mean I love my games, manga, anime, etc, but if I can't afford it, then it doesn't really matter if I want to buy a system now does it, that doesn't put money in Sony or Nintendo or Microsoft's pocket, it seems more likely that everyone will just end up playing games online w/ emulators

[partyprobe]

True i see what you are saying and i agree with it. I can barley afford food for myself at times so how do they expect people to keep money flowing instead of saving it. All the government tried to do is give everyone alittle bit of money and alot of people just ended up saving it in the long run. Sure the companies have tried to drop prices to adjust to this but i dont think it will help. But it cant be helped because things we rely on are vanishing slowly. Gas, food, and room are running out so what can we do if they rise prices. The answer is nothing we have to deal with this until someone finds a solution or gets fed up and does something rash.

[Rincewind]

If i find a really good anime/movie i buy the dvd to watch it on big tv and get bonus materials , even tho i might have seen it online before :) even though dvds arent cheap

[illuma]

That also would be another factor right there. Seeing an anime on a giant tv screen. i mean some people will just connect their computer to the tv, but if you buy the dvd the quality will be no doubt top notch. I on the other hand don't mind watching it on a simple screen monitor, so i guess you could say that i am supporting the ruin of my nation's economy. Well if that happens i guess i could just go back to my home land.

[gunbound15]

i wouldn't worry too much about the US economy being ruined. we just need to a world war III to jumpstart the economy again if it ever hits rockbottom. so keep on messing our economy up, if the internet didn't harm the economy, animefuel wouldn't exist in the first place. :ramen:

[partyprobe]

Well in my eyes that is one good thing war is good for is bringing in the money. That and it helps regulate how many people are in the world. We always can use a war so what if every one complains about it i dont see any problems with wars. I cant really say anything about the war at this time because what is wrong with it. Yes it may harn the enviroment and may make people sad but there are positives.

[Corwin]

yeah but it's not so much right now that we need a war to jump start the economy, it's more that the economy needs to slow back to a walk for a bit, it's been on full title since the 80's and we've gotten to the point where instead of taking the time to actually make use of new products and technologies and figure out how to make them smaller, cheaper, and more effective, instead they are continuing to run ahead and full speed to put out the next new thing, which means every company is technically in a deficit trying to make the money back up with each successive product, and of course each new product is newer technology so it costs more to develop and therefore has a higher cost, meaning not many ppl can afford it, so the company loses money and when we do try to buy something new we feel poor afterwards, about the only thing that has stayed consistent in it's prices over the last 10 years, are books, b/c it's not like there is really any new technology there, and in fact considering that they consider the decreasing number of tree's as big a problem as oil but you don't see paper and book prices skyrocketing, that tells me almost every other company is just profit mongering, so until they break the American consumer's back so to speak and fail themselves, sending our economy perilously close to the breaking point and a resulting depression, they won't stop, of course it doesn't help that their investors and stock holders push for them to do this sort of thing anyways, right now the only ppl who can really afford the stuff created these days are the ppl who are rich from helping make it

[partyprobe]

That was well said every thing you just said i agreed with but at this moment i cant think of anything else to say on this topic. Althou these 5 pages have been fun to go back and forth with you guys mostly koopa and corwin.

[Corwin]

yeah I agree Party, I think this topic is pretty much dead, I'm sure if we knew a lot more about what we are talking about, or had access to more specific information we could keep this going on a lot longer, but it's been fun having the back and forth, thankfully it didn't degenerate into a "he said, she said" argument

[partyprobe]

LOL at least that didnt happen any ideas what we should debate about on the next thread i start.

[Corwin]

Not a clue, you think it would be easier to pick good topics like this, but it isn't, so many of them are more related than you think, so once you've taken care of one argument, that's killed another 20, maybe though we could get another anime based one started, something less along the lines of who is hotter or who wants to screw who or what, but maybe something more along the lines of how a certain series ended or how we think it will end and why, or why we think it should have ended differently, of course we'd have to back up some of this information w/ reliable sources especially in the case of anime's that finished before the manga's and vice versa

[partyprobe]

The problem with a topic like that there are soooooo many animes you can debate about like that but i will give it a try. give me a few minutes and i think of something.

[Mugen]

The global economy is on its knee's yet movies/games/cds are basically the same price. people need their hard earned money for the bare essentials, staple food, gas etc, and are not willing to splash out on extras because they simply cant afford to. this is why piracy is rising, but thats not to say that all dvd sales are flopping. if the movie is awesome, people will buy it, but if its generic, you can bet the sales would be crippling. I never download movie torrents, but i do buy dvds. however, with music, it's vice-versa - i never buy cds, but always download.

Unless they make the merchandise cheaper, the economy will continue to go downhill.