Greatest Triumph, or Greatest Disaster

[Sun Tzu]

Its a well known fact that the majority of the world, the United States especially, is overly dependant on oil. We use it for everything, and it provides the biggest energetic bang for our buck. Not only do we use it for the gasoline that drives our cars, but it has also fueled a vast population boom. The green revolution it was called, where petroleum based fertalizers and gas driven tractors drove the price of food through the floor. Food became so cheap that the government actually has begun having to subsadize their farmers to make sure they make ends meat.

The prime consumer of petroleum is the United States, being the most powerful and economically developed country in the world. Following the United States' example two countries have begun following in its foot steps, reshaping their own economic structure to be dependant on oil, consuming even more of this precious life blood.

Oil is a non renewable resource, which means we can't get more of it. Oil is organic matter that has been slowly compressed over millions of years, pooling all of the energy that the previous organism used to hold, until it resembles the black sticky substance we have now. Up to this point we have not been able to find a renewable substance that pacts even a remotely similar punch that oil contains. We are getting close however.

So what happens when we run out of this precious resource? Not only do our modern conveniences vanish, but we lack the ability to feed even a quarter of the population we currently possess. A massive die off will begin, the poor first, followed by the middle class and many of the rich. Few will survive, and after we restabilize ourselves we will be unrecognizable. Now this is of course only going to happen if we don't use the weapons we have built. Weapons of mass destruction, capable of wiping an entire continent off the face of the earth. Highly unlikely that we will be able to resist using them when everyone is beginning to feel the squeeze of starvation. So off we fire our nuclear missiles in conflict over the few remaining rich oil reserves left on the earth, altering the climate, destroying human life, and just generally doing bad things.

Yes we are perhaps in more danger now as a species than we have ever been. But we also have a supreme opportunity to reshape everything, eliminating much ecological strain, and removing our dependence on a foreign energy source. We can re craft ourselves into a Utopian race, where a near unlimited energy source has eliminated many of our conflicts, paving the way for a burst of scientific knowledge. Flying cars are possible, medicine has discovered clinical immortality, and we have begun to colonize other planets, all within the next 100 years. That is of course if we as a species is able to meet the close deadline of finding a new energy source before the world runs out of the old one.

It is possible, and highly probable, but it will be difficult. Already the effects of the oil crunch are upon us. Skyrocketing gasoline prices, inflation in American currency, rise in food prices... You just have to look around. There are good things to come out of it too, rise in public transportation, increase in hybrid sales, even those creapy scooter things from Europe have begun selling in America. It shows that we are indeed changing, but doing it at an incredibly slow pace, is this pace fast enough?

Today the International Energy Agency is studying for the first time oil supply instead of oil demand. What they have found is chilling. Over the next 2 decades oil companies are going to be struggling to meet 100 million barrels a day, meaning demand is going to swiftly out strip supply.

We need to do a great many things to make sure that we are still standing as the worlds dominant species in 20 years. An increase in funding to an alternative energy source is of course a must, but we as a people can speed up this process. Raising gas prices through any means possible is a important, it urges people to buy cleaner more efficient cars and it allows the free market to do our work for us. (People buy efficient cars, effecient cars sales rise, car manufacturers produce an even more efficient car, that car sales... repeat.) Limit your oil consumption, dont waste plastic. Cast your vote for officials that are concerned about energy consumption and pledge to do everything in their power to limit it. Run for office yourself, and make the changes that are so necessary.

I give a slight cheer every time I see gas prices go up, I know we arent out of oil yet and it is merely a product of the markets fear and instability, but it gives the necessary incentive to craft ourselves into something new. This is a fragile time for us as a species, but Im confident we can emerge from this stronger and better than before.

[Koopaking]

Yeah if we don't find a good alternative to oil, once it runs out, the world will pretty much end.

[athrun0017]

not only that.. we people will find it hard to exsist, even worse " mother earth " will not survive too long, without her fossil fuels!

[analogZero]

oil is renewable. give it a few million years and your leftover remains could be the fuel of the future!!!

[Felix42]

Actually the same thing was said a 100 years ago about coal, and some 70 years ago about copper (for powerlines). But instead of coal we now use oil, and instead of copper we use sand.

Probably, when the price for oil gets high enough it will pay of to use Wind, Water, Bio or Nuclear energy instead. I'm not saying we shouldn't care, but the lack of oil probably won't be that huge of a problem.

Furthermore many of the things you mention as consequences of the rise in oil price, is not only because of the oil price.

The rise in food prices for example, is a result of many factors, such as worldwide bad harvest, and the fact that EU (and possible the states) have been dumping food prices in Africa (that is artificially lowering prices).

The inflation in the states is because of the low US currency, which makes imported goods costlier, and because of the inflationary policy being used to stimulate the US economy.

A possible reason for the low US currency is a case of so called "capital flight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_flight)". That is when people are afraid the exchange rate will fall, they will remove their assets from the States thus making the exchange rate drop.

The worst effect of the heavy use of oil might be global warming. Of course the size of this effect have never been determined, since the are thousands of factors involved.

Actually i do agree with you, to some degree, i just don't agree with your arguments. I do believe that we in the western world should subsidize renewable energy and tax gasoline, so that we use less oil.

I got into a debate with Sun-Tzu... this might be the death of me... :serious:

[tripletres]

i wish that humans would pay attention to the world like you all. everyone knows that oil is running out, and some people have been trying to help the cause, ie solar panals, wind energy, etc. but those people who could make a difference in the world still insist on using oil. lets see here... pay rising gas prices or use free solar energy... hmmm..

[monsoon 10]

How about some nuclear power everyone.

[leerock89]

We can re craft ourselves into a Utopian race, where a near unlimited energy source has eliminated many of our conflicts, paving the way for a burst of scientific knowledge.

What some brilliant genius out there needs to do is to come up with an FTL drive. That will probably guarantee our survival and probably usher in a golden age for all of humanity.

[Felix42]

Well im just saying, if we used Nuclear energy, we wouldn't have problem with the lack of oil. Nuclear energy is A solution to the diminishing oilreserves, even though it might not be the best one...

What is a FTL-drive? :oo:

[Koopaking]

What we should do is fly over to the other planets and use up all of their resources for our power instead.

[analogZero]

The problem with nuclear is that it's like oil, non-renewable. looks good now, but down the road when there's a uranium shortage and future generations are looking for another place to put nuclear waste, then they'll just be back at square one looking at new energy sources to put into effect.
The other issue with oil, that is worth bringing up is that it is the creator of plastics! and here's a little vid for everyone to check out on the fun that is plastic. feel free to check out the rest of the series they've got along the side.

http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1519713792

[leerock89]

FTL is Faster Then Light. It can be anything that allows us puny humans to travel the stars faster then light. Of course the whole thing seems impossible because of Einsteins theory of relativity, but thats because we've only gone so far with our science. I'm pretty sure once thats found we can find other sources of energy and stop being so dependent on something nonrenewable.

[Raven]

Sun Tzu, That is quite a radical approach and while I agree some of it is probable, I must disagree on a couple points. Bio Diesel gets a much better bang for your buck, especially with rising oil prices. I know switching to Bio Diesel would not eliminate our dependancy, but it would practically cut it in half. Same goes for the farming; First of all, none of teh farmers would be subsidized in your scenario allowing for more crops to grow. Also, I have never seen a farm tractor that did not run on diesel, Bio Diesel saves the day again.

For those who don't know. Bio Diesel is produced from vegetable oil in a process called esterfication. The two byproducts of this process are glycerin, which is a main ingredient in soap, and Bio Diesel, a cheap clean burning fuel.

Leerock, I have to agree. I believe the problem with FTL travel is just that it can't happen with our current physics. I think it is absolutely possible, and probable, that there will be a discovery that will lead to controlled wormholes. I agree, that would solve a lot of problems, if they could be used within the earths atmosphere and could be self sustaining. I can just see us having to burn oil to create a wormhole XD

[monsoon 10]

The problem with nuclear is that it's like oil, non-renewable. looks good now, but down the road when there's a uranium shortage and future generations are looking for another place to put nuclear waste, then they'll just be back at square one looking at new energy sources to put into effect.
The other issue with oil, that is worth bringing up is that it is the creator of plastics! and here's a little vid for everyone to check out on the fun that is plastic. feel free to check out the rest of the series they've got along the side.

http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1519713792

Do you know how long uranium last until it's out of energy, in that time we will probably have found smaller more efficient forms of energy.

[leerock89]

Well most likely for a FTL to work we would probably have to come up with a whole new set of laws so we could by pass whats holding us down. GO PEOPLE WITH MUCH LARGER IQ THEN ME!!!!!!!!!!! DO ALL THE HARD WORK SO I COULD LEAVE THIS PLANET!!!

[Raven]

I wouldn't say a new set of laws. Not until we have left the solar system.
I believe the closest we are to fast space travel would be the space drive. Once we are able to isolate and direct the graviton we will be well on our way. I also think this discovery will help us learn more about the fabric of the universe (support/refute Einstein's space-time theory), we will have reached the bottom rung of the hyperspace ladder.

[Koopaking]

The government has already mastered the fields of Space Travel, Time Travel, Memory Modification, Alien Communication, and they already have come up with a cheap, non-polluting, renewable power source 100x more powerful than oil.

They just keep all of this to themselves though.

[Raven]

And they asked me to make sure it all stays secret... mind if I come over Koopa?

[analogZero]

Do you know how long uranium last until it's out of energy, in that time we will probably have found smaller more efficient forms of energy.

quite true, if they were to impliment uranium 238 plants as they would long outlive the human race I'm sure, but oil was supposed to last forever too. currently we're only using 0.72% of mined uranium, which is used for about 6 years before it has to cool itself off for about 40+ at which point there's the chance of reprocessing what's left of it. It's like eating lunch and then crapping out a month's worth of constipation. While it is incredibly efficient it seems more like another heap for the pile of garbage we're already producing when you weigh it out to how much power we'd have to generate for the entire earth. It's easy enough to say that it's negative press is due to people's fear of nuclear weaponry and the rare malfunction though, for that it gets the majority of it's bad rep.
The sun's far more nuclear than anything we're going to find on earth, and we've been using it's energy for how long? start counting...It's been adored by mankind throughout history for a reason. And nuclear power will be long dead before the sun is. It wouldn't cost much to start building solar panels if they were in demand, hell they'd be pumped out of the factories faster than we could make them. But I suppose there'd only be profit from panel production and not much more. no refueling. They'd have to make them shitty so they'd require maintenance, or do like TV and have everyone upgrade to the new plasma solar panels. ooo la la!
Point being, new energy is going to have to make someone rich, and if it doesn't it won't be implimented. Consumerism, it's what your money's for! If energy were free or easily accessible, then where would that leave the world?

FTL is Faster Then Light. It can be anything that allows us puny humans to travel the stars faster then light.

bend space/time like in the movie event horizon! although we'd have to cross our fingers and hope the same thing doesn't happen as does in that movie.
top shelf pic!

[athrun0017]

Unfortunatly this world cannot be helped.. even if we are to find a new sorce of power it will eventually come to an end.. its an endless spiral that only repeats itself.. money is also a problem.. its one of the reason, why we cannot truly succeed in finding a renewable sorce of energy that we all need.. its actually behind everything.. this world is forever doomed!

[leerock89]

Well like koopa said I'm pretty sure the government has something up their sleeves, they just don't want to do anything about it because of the money factor. We all know that the gas companies profits have been hitting highs for the past few years and the government gets a nice chunk of that. I know that they created an engine for cars that runs purely on water in the 80's but it was hushed up real quick and most of the evidence along with the scientist were quietly put away just so that the money would keep on rolling in from oil.

[Felix42]

Wow this is some conspiracy-theories. Well theres not much energy in water, so clearly you can never make a car drive on that.

Actually solar power is pretty inefficient as it is today. In the short run i think, water wind and bio are far more viable.

We probably won't run out of energy as long as the sun exists. And even if we do, we will just experience a huge fall in the standard of living. The human race have survived without electricity for hundreds of years, and could do so again. And there will (most likely) always be wood.

[Russkie]

I have no doubt that I will regret this in some way or another; I dissagree.

My father and I were discussing this subject earlyer this month. I have been told that Cannada has a HUGE amounts of oil that has been soaked and traped inside sand. There is a methode of getting it out, but one of the problems is that America is not allowed to process/burn oil with sulfer in it, Supposibly its illegal.

You should also know that off the coast of Alaska and in the Gulf of Mexico there are even greater amounts of oil thats just sitting there. And we're not alowed to touch it. But guess who is taking advantage of Americas ignorance?* China of course. They've already completed several oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico and are selling OUR oil to us.

And once last neat fact: They not-too-long-ago discovered yet another collection of oil. This time in North Dekota, and get this: ITS JUST AS BIG (or even bigger) AS ALL THE OIL RESOURCES IN THE MIDDLE EAST. Thats billions upon billions of gallons of oil in just one spot.

For all those who believe in a just and loving God as I do, let me ask you: What sign did God show Noah after they settled on land again, and what did that resemble? That being said, do you honestly believe God would let his children destroy themselves like this? Do you not believe that God knows what hes doing and maybe... just maybe he might have a plan for us?

*America is not allowed to drill for oil because of activists complaining about the oil spills. People fail to realize that todays oil drilling technology is much vaster and MUCH SAFER than it was 20 years ago.

[Koopaking]

It is the will of Koopaking that allows man to live on.

[Russkie]

Well like koopa said I'm pretty sure the government has something up their sleeves, they just don't want to do anything about it because of the money factor. We all know that the gas companies profits have been hitting highs for the past few years and the government gets a nice chunk of that. I know that they created an engine for cars that runs purely on water in the 80's but it was hushed up real quick and most of the evidence along with the scientist were quietly put away just so that the money would keep on rolling in from oil.

No, they dont. Many people believe the oil companies are making huge profits right now.* That is majorly FALSE.

The oil companies are not making as much as they used to. People dont drive as much as they want, they dont go on vacations or visit friends if they aren't within walking distance. If no one drives as much as they used to, then how are the oil companies making more if people are spending less?

You are right about the Government getting money out of this, its due to the high taxes they charge the oil companies. But your wrong (again) about that car that ran on water. Listen carefuly, what do you think they used to fuel steam engines? WATER!!! The only reason the scientists stoped working on that subject was because they knew they were NOT progressing in thechnilogical advancments!!! GAH!

*KEEP IN MIND: Many people do not realize that the profits that are shown by the oil companies on how much they made is GLOBAL PROFITS, meaning they're not only getting money from the U.S., they're getting it from several other counties. One of them happens to be China.

[Koopaking]

nuh uh, Steam engines run off of steam. Steam may be made from water but the engines themselves ran off steam. And actually the oil companies are making huge profits due to the Iron Man movie grossing so well.

[Russkie]

nuh uh, Steam engines run off of steam. Steam may be made from water but the engines themselves ran off steam. And actually the oil companies are making huge profits due to the Iron Man movie grossing so well.


Yeah Huh, "steam may be made from water but the engines themselves ran off steam." Well duh! Thats the same thing! Steam is just water molecuels bouncing around faster than normal because of their temperature!

I have not heard anything about oil companies paying to produce the movie Iron man, I will have to do some research and get back to you on that one. But I should say that whatever they made off of that movie is highly unlikely that it would be enough to make up for the several years of this gas situation.

[Sun Tzu]

nuh uh, Steam engines run off of steam. Steam may be made from water but the engines themselves ran off steam. And actually the oil companies are making huge profits due to the Iron Man movie grossing so well.

Im sorry If I havent answered in awhile Im simply watching where this leads instead of crushing it. Gonna pop in real quick to say, Koopa steam is simply a conduit, you need energy to heat up the water to push the turbine. The steam engine ran on coal, and wood. Solar reflects the suns heat into water to bring it to a boil to push the turbine, geothermal is perhaps the most effecient form of energy because the work has been done for us. Even Nuclear power heats up the water to push the turbine that turns our lights on.

The energy is in the heat, Steam is simply something that transfers it into force.

[Russkie]

Im sorry If I havent answered in awhile Im simply watching where this leads instead of crushing it. Gonna pop in real quick to say, Koopa steam is simply a conduit, you need energy to heat up the water to push the turbine. The steam engine ran on coal, and wood. Solar reflects the suns heat into water to bring it to a boil to push the turbine, geothermal is perhaps the most effecient form of energy because the work has been done for us. Even Nuclear power heats up the water to push the turbine that turns our lights on.

The energy is in the heat, Steam is simply something that transfers it into force.

Makes sense, I would also like to point out that I love your avatar. I used to watch that show with my father as a little child.

[Koopaking]

I can agree that the oil companies are losing a lot of money due to the efforts against Cthulhu though.

[leerock89]

No, they dont. Many people believe the oil companies are making huge profits right now.* That is majorly FALSE.

The oil companies are not making as much as they used to. People dont drive as much as they want, they dont go on vacations or visit friends if they aren't within walking distance. If no one drives as much as they used to, then how are the oil companies making more if people are spending less?

Sorry buddy. You remember the last quarterly report from just the US gas companies?? Yea it hit another record high. And your telling me after I saw the hard evidence, not just some new report, but evidence that they were making massive amounts of money and your going to tell me that its not true? Ok I'm open minded. Just prove to me that they aren't.

[Russkie]

Sorry buddy. You remember the last quarterly report from just the US gas companies?? Yea it hit another record high. And your telling me after I saw the hard evidence, not just some new report, but evidence that they were making massive amounts of money and your going to tell me that its not true? Ok I'm open minded. Just prove to me that they aren't.


"Record high" means nothing when your throwing money all over the place just to keep things moving. Say one company makes 10billion in one year: What about the 9.999billion they're spending on conracts, shiping costs, mechanical maitenance and, oh yeah, the workers that have a mighty need to get paid and feed themselves? Lets not forget the taxes!

After boiling all that down, how much do they really make? Please not that the money estimates I made were just examples.

[leerock89]

See thats the thing you think everyone has a piece of it but they really don't. If everyone did the top hanchos wouldn't be making that much and thats bad for them. You think they are going to just sit there and hand out cash to whoever asks for it?? Thats bad business and they know it.

[Russkie]

See thats the thing you think everyone has a piece of it but they really don't. If everyone did the top hanchos wouldn't be making that much and thats bad for them. You think they are going to just sit there and hand out cash to whoever asks for it?? Thats bad business and they know it.

As always, I needed time to think about what I say before I say it. Read my reply above yours...

I agree; it is bad for them. And they certianly are not making much at all. But you should keep in mind that they are not just "handing out cash to whoever asks for it", they spend that money to keep things moving (like I said earlyer).

[leerock89]

Before anything I want you to know your thinking like a poor person. I'm not rich or wealthy myself, but I know a few of them and they all have the same mentality. Ok so they spend 10 bill of that stuff. What another 20 bill on workers and what not. What else is there please?? Because they made 114 billion this year so far..... and thats only Exxon Mobile. Also when they say profit what do you think the word means??

[Russkie]

Before anything I want you to know your thinking like a poor person. I'm not rich or wealthy myself, but I know a few of them and they all have the same mentality. Ok so they spend 10 bill of that stuff. What another 20 bill on workers and what not. What else is there please?? Because they made 114 billion this year so far..... and thats only Exxon Mobile.

Hey, thats interesting of you to say that! I am poor! What a coincidence... my family comes from a poverty stricken villiage in Russia. My family and I moved to America (for the obvious reason, a better life), and I have been living here since I was 1 and a half... I think, I don't remember how old I was.

Ok so they spend 10 bill of that stuff. What another 20 bill on workers and what not. What else is there please?? Because they made 114 billion this year so far..... and thats only Exxon

My 10billion (like I said) was just an example, I don't know exactly how much each company makes. But I do know that if you apply why I just said to what your aksing, it comes out exactly as I am saying.

[leerock89]

Wheres your solid facts?? This is just your speculation on what you think of it. Thats fine as it is what you believe but if you want someone else to you need hard facts. Where is it? Can you at least give me a link or something??

[Russkie]

Wheres your solid facts?? This is just your speculation on what you think of it. Thats fine as it is what you believe but if you want someone else to you need hard facts. Where is it? Can you at least give me a link or something??

Whoever said I was speculating? I don't know of any links that will take you to information on list of what they spend their money on, but I have confidence that with enough devotion and research, you yourself can look up the process of making and distributing oil.

They dont snap their fingers and a barrel of oil appears in front of them. It takes alot of effort in collecting and processing the oil. Large machinery does that job, and machinery tends to break. What happens when important, expensive machinery breaks? You fix it of course... and to fix it costs (you guessed it) money.

Funny how that works out ~.^

[Raven]

Russkie, you have a valid point. The problem is that Leerock is talking about profits 114 billion in profit means that after all expenses are paid they have a net income of 114 billion. I believe the problem is, if the oil companies are making that much, and the government taxes all of that. What will the country do when we find alternate resources. It's been made quite clear however, that the government has no intension of moving from oil, they get too much money from it.

[leerock89]

Sigh. Ok . You think they just keep on building massive massive amounts of oil rigs everywhere? And when we buy oil from elsewhere, guess what?? We dont have to do much to it but get it to the stations. All the stuff exists for it to just keep on rolling. And engineers and mechanics are all part of the working force that they have calculated out. Once again I will point out that the top heads won't allow for it to fall apart. If that happens they lose money. You think they got to that point making stupid decisions?? What I'm trying to tell you is that oil is a mass market and the top guys won't allow it to not get them mass profits. If that happened it would get sold, or merge or something. Look at what AT&T did. They let another company take over, boost its sales, get large again then came back full force. What you think that Big Business is Small Business?? You think they don't have massive amounts of resources to do what they want to and on occasion need to do?

[Koopaking]

I don't know of any links that will take you to information on list of what they spend their money on,

....Google

[leerock89]

This kid come in and edits what he originally wrote to make mine look stupid and invalid. Im not resting until he either proves what he thinks or stops talking in this thread.

[Russkie]

Russkie, you have a valid point. The problem is that Leerock is talking about profits 114 billion in profit means that after all expenses are paid they have a net income of 114 billion. I believe the problem is, if the oil companies are making that much, and the government taxes all of that. What will the country do when we find alternate resources. It's been made quite clear however, that the government has no intension of moving from oil, they get too much money from it.

I understand, thank you Raven for clearifying this to me - I still find it hard to understand some english gramer at times.

But with what you just said; why would we move away from oil when there is obviously plenty of it? The entire reason why I came into this conversation was to inform people that there is infact, much oil left in the ground. We just wont get it.

Also, what is a government without money? How will we build roads, buildings, pass laws, investigate studies, progress in technilogical advancements, and many other things? Sure the governemnt gets alot of money, but the government also spends alot of money too.

I would also like to note that there is the possibility that we wont be finding a new and improved energy source anytime soon. Oil is a great resource, its just that simple. And if we do, who knows - maybe it will be something the government will be able to tax us on lol?

Unfortunately, Its time for me to catch some sleep. I need to get up early (again) in the morning. I hope I debated my case well, and I hope I did not leave anything out, or offendy/anger anyone that may have been reading what I have said.

[Russkie]

This kid come in and edits what he originally wrote to make mine look stupid and invalid. Im not resting until he either proves what he thinks or stops talking in this thread.


Okay, one last post then...

I edit everything because this is my second language. You dont understand the difficulty of going from a 30+ alphabet to a 20+ alphabet. I tend to make many mistakes in spelling and when it comes to making complete/incomlete sense. How would you react if I asked you (in english) "why is your head so big?", but meant to ask how you were feeling and not even know I was at fault?

Good day to you, sir -.-"

[leerock89]

There plenty of oil but its being used up more now. In that past decade oil sales in China and India sky rocketed because more and more people started to drive. That mean more oil is being sucked away from our planet. Eventually it WILL disappear.

[leerock89]

Okay, one last post then...

I edit everything because this is my second language. You dont understand the difficulty of going from a 30+ alphabet to a 20+ alphabet. I tend to make many mistakes in spelling and when it comes to making complete/incomlete sense. How would you react if I asked you (in english) "why is your head so big?", but meant to ask how you were feeling and not even know I was at fault?

Good day to you, sir -.-"

If I remember correctly you said that the gas companies weren't making much because everyone had their hands in the money. And the you edited out to what is there now. I'm afraid that you have gone very far down the totem pole in my point of view for going back and editing. This is a debate. Make your point and prove it without having to backtrack and correct yourself.

[leerock89]

And another thing

"Record high" means nothing when your throwing money all over the place just to keep things moving. Say one company makes 10billion in one year: What about the 9.999billion they're spending on conracts, shiping costs, mechanical maitenance and, oh yeah, the workers that have a mighty need to get paid and feed themselves? Lets not forget the taxes!

After boiling all that down, how much do they really make? Please not that the money estimates I made were just examples.

You see that last sentece??? Originally it said "how can the gas companies cant be making a lot of money when everyone has their hands in it..."

I remember this cause I posted this

See thats the thing you think everyone has a piece of it but they really don't. If everyone did the top hanchos wouldn't be making that much and thats bad for them. You think they are going to just sit there and hand out cash to whoever asks for it?? Thats bad business and they know it.

You changed it to what it looks like now.

Tell me if you didn't have a good understanding of what your reading or writing how did it change so well??? PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW THIS WORKS.

[gunbound15]

has anybody here heard of nuclear fusion? if all goes to plan, we should have a functioning miniature star here on earth within say 20 years. that's about 10 years before our oil reserves are expected to run out. however we still need to try our best and focus the majority of our money on solar energy, it's gonna be solar energy that gets us off this miserable planet in the next 300 years.

[Koopaking]

That is a pretty crappy thing to do, go back and change what you said in a debate...

[Russkie]

And another thing



You see that last sentece??? Originally it said "how can the gas companies cant be making a lot of money when everyone has their hands in it..."

I remember this cause I posted this



You changed it to what it looks like now.

Tell me if you didn't have a good understanding of what your reading or writing how did it change so well??? PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW THIS WORKS.


As I said before, the Russian and English languages are both very difficult forms of speach to learn. I have always, and WILL always make mistakes in my gramer, spelling, and the point I am trying to make accross. Please keep this in mind.

[leerock89]

Ok then please don't go back and edit. Instead please make a new post describing yourself better.

[Russkie]

Ok then please don't go back and edit. Instead please make a new post describing yourself better.

Is it not considered anoying when someone posts after ones self? So far, all the forums I have been to feel that same way.

I do not believe I can argue my case anymore, I feel I may have lost this debate due to the fact that I have insufficient evidence to back up my claims. Although I am admiting defeat, I hope I have at least incouraged you to prove me wrong by doing your own searches and studies on the matter.

I had fun debating this subject, I hope you feel the same ::D:.

[Felix42]

Well actually all oil company's have to make annual accounts for the sake of the shareholders. It seems that shell had a profit of 31 billion dollars, compared to 355 billion in revenue. Their assets were 187 billions which means the interest on the assets were 17 % which is alot. (im not too confident in these numbers, are used to annual accounts in danish)
But anyway why shouldn't the oil-companys make money when we're willing to pay. They are not stupid.

Anyway the prices are high because the demand for oil riser quicker than the supply, make the price rise. In the long run however, supply might rise because of the higher price. The demand will increase because of emerging countries like China, but will fall because we will use less oil as prices rise.
As an example General Motors now produce fewer 4WD because that Americans now prefer more gasoline-efficient cars.

In the end no one can say whether the price will rise or fall then, though it will rise when we run out some day.

[analogZero]

Oil is a great resource, its just that simple.

K, i got lost in youz guyziz conversation, but I did catch this. and I don't see how it could be mistranslated. particularly considering your side of the thread.

Oil is actually a terrible resource. it's useful for energy, I'll give it that, but it is also an incredibly damaging and toxic pollutant. One of the greatest this world has ever seen. If you looked beyond the oil stain in the driveway, the one of several billion automobiles running and the candy wrapper that somebody was too mechanically challenged to actually drop in the oversized hole that is an everyday garbage can, you'd see the enormous amount of crap that there is piled up from oil manufacturing. it's only being pumped because you pay money for it. lots of money that you complain about later, but then still pay more money for after you're done complaining. they're the pimps, oil's the hooker, you're the john. though oil can't give you herpes. but it is dark, slippery and ready to ignite!..and smells bad

[Koopaking]

great analogies... hehe oily pimps...

[Felix42]

Actually aren't you talking about when you make oil into gasoline, Analogzero?

If you burn oil correctly you only get CO2 and water. It's relatively cheap to get. It can be used to create plastics and is fantastic for engines.

If you use coal instead you get all kinds of poisonous gases, is mined by small children in dangerous mines and you couldn't drive a car on coal. So oil is definitely better than coal.

There are lots of things better than oil, but they are all very costly in comparison. And if you want to use f.x wind power for all the cars, it would be necessary to change all the cars to electric cars. This might also cost a bit :D

[partyprobe]

No matter how you look at it what ever we choose to do in the future will be takin advantage of from those companies. No matter how cheap it will be to make that product the companies will get greedy and start to over charge and then us the consumer will be forced to pay that because we need it. In the long run the only thing us common folk can do is sit back and take what ever comes to us cause nothin will changed in this world we have destroyed for our own ambitions.

[analogZero]

Actually aren't you talking about when you make oil into gasoline, Analogzero?

If you burn oil correctly you only get CO2 and water. It's relatively cheap to get. It can be used to create plastics and is fantastic for engines.

If you use coal instead you get all kinds of poisonous gases, is mined by small children in dangerous mines and you couldn't drive a car on coal. So oil is definitely better than coal.

There are lots of things better than oil, but they are all very costly in comparison. And if you want to use f.x wind power for all the cars, it would be necessary to change all the cars to electric cars. This might also cost a bit :D

coal's gross, but oil is processed into far more things than gasoline, and a lot of those things aren't too super in the long run. plastics are the top of that list I'd say. Is straight oil used much for anything? I was unaware of the CO2 water thing, seems wierd but I'll take it as it is right now.

[Felix42]

Oil is long CH-chains (that is carbon and hydrogen, which when it burns make C02 and H20)
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem00/chem00937.htm

Coal is in many ways the same, except that its harder to burn hot enough. If it don't burn hot enough CO are released instead of CO2, and CO is very poisonous. Further more it releases more PO3 and SO2, which are the stuff that cause acidic rain.