What is your View on the Iraqi War

[strike7785]

To me yea we were right to invade Afghanistan because they invaded us by attacking the world trade centers and hijacking out commercial airplanes, but were we right by invading Iraq? We had no information that they contained massive weopons of destruction, but still we invaded. To me this war is all about the oil. We say we want to help them and they say they want to build a better civilization. Is that True? To me if they care so much for there country they would have fought for there own country. I think they don't care. They want other nations to do there dirty work for them and they procrastinate on getting things in order. We have been there for 5-6 years now and we are making minamal progres. Your feed back:pissed::mad:

[Rock]

imo war is pointless, but it makes money for goverment. PPLS I RECOMMEND u watch ZEITGEIST movie, u gotta watch ALL movie ifu wanna see it, its most interesting in the end, lil spoiler - the tragedy on 11september WAST NOT done by terrorists but by goverment itself O.o.. its must see movie i must say:P

[strike7785]

It aint making money for our govt. The US is about to go into a recession mainly because of the war, but Ill look into ZEITGEIST movie

[archangle]

i agree with rock that war is pointless i think that nations fight with each other just for political reason and money

[strike7785]

Yea making money for the leaders such as out President. Word is that he owns a certain percentage of that oil and that really bugs me, Yea I do agree with both of you

[Corwin]

actually strike that is untrue, when you get into the presidency you aren't allowed to hold shares in ventures such as that where you may affect national economic policy regarding your own finances, and it's not like he can give himself more money, the president has a set income every year and only congress can choose to raise it, he has no say in the matter except to say that he doesn't want a raise

[xantok]

***WARNING HIGHLY OFFENSIVE***

i think we need to nuke the middle east... it would save the world alot of trouble

(sorry i have a very bitter taste in my mouth twards muslems)

[Ryuuzaki]

Iraq War=Epic Fail...

[Break001]

Very Epic fail -_-'

[shiv]

I don't realy need to read whats on top! i just say this- IS ANY WAR GOOD?

[monsoon 10]

I don't realy need to read whats on top! i just say this- IS ANY WAR GOOD?

That's a very uninformed look at war. If you look closely at history every time there is a major war technology processes at an uncanny rate, not to mention that it creates social change that is some time required. Sure there might be human lives lost but you just can't label war as completely bad.

[shiv]

u sayd good..there is a war tech progress..wy we need that? humans dont have other enemy's besize theyr ow kind! Wtf u think aliens gonna atack us and we will be unable to defend?

[leerock89]

Iraqi War is just a big waste of time. First off Bush Sr. still had beef with Saddam so he told Bush Jr. to go and get him. So what did Bush Jr. do? He staged a plan that would rival Pearl Harbor, and get America to get off its ass. Everyone knows what I'm talking about right?? 7 years ago.... New York.... two buildings gone.... Well this was the perfect reason to start a war, and with America being a very war wary nation(American's don't like war and to have a war start and keep it prolonged they need a really good reason) 9/11 was a perfect reason to start a war, which by the way, if you have forgotten, started in Afghanistan then went to Iraq. This was also a perfect reason for the group whose name I shall not mention to get it's grubby greedy blood filled hands on some nice middle eastern property, and if your christian, start getting ready for the apocalypse. And as a side effect the American people were so afraid of another attack that Bush Jr. was able to get another term by saying he would keep on fighting to protect america from evil terrorist. What a bunch of pussy's eh? And then to make it worse they gave everything a shadow to make sure none of this would be found out and threw out a big fat uselss book to quell most conspiracy theories from holding on. Brilliantly done if I do say so my self. Just to end this, PEOPLE ARE DUMB AND EASY TO CONTROL. FOR GODS SAKE USE YOUR BRAINS ONE IN AWHILE!!! AND START TAKING INTEREST IN WHAT YOUR LEADERS ARE DOING YOU DIPSHITS BEFORE AMERICA TURNS INTO THE NEXT ROME!!!!!

[Corwin]

actually Shiv, during war is when our medical technologies tend to progress the fastest, war is bad but I tend to agree w/ monsoon10, in a general view, war is a sometimes necessary component of social change, as for the ppl complaining that the iraqi's won't get off their asses to help, let's face it, depending on how you want to look at it they've been browbeaten into the ground by both their government and misinterpreted religious passages, they don't have the will to fight in most circumstances, and even if they did, during a civil war it is usually a small portion of the population working towards the "greater good" until it looks like they are winning at which point everyone else will jump on the bandwagon, but it doesn't surprise me that they aren't too enthusiastic about us being there, it will be like the British w/ Hong Kong, how long until we give them their land back and pull out completely? and how much are we really going to change, the women for instance only have reason to be helpful and hopeful while we're there, but once we leave they are back at the mercy of the communities social and religious belief, which state that they are worse off then our women were before the women's suffrage movement, also, it's very easy to make broad generalized statements about how the war is bad and good this late in the game, you aren't the ones in power or in the specific situation these people are in, how do you know they don't want us here, the ppl we see on tv opposing or promoting our occupation are a small selection of ppl that were chosen specifically to endorse those views, until you go door to door asking the ppl what they want you can't really say for certain, and for all that we want to believe we know, you have no real idea of the political motivation and ramification of the president's actions leading to the war in Iraq, and we aren't going to be able to discern who is truly in the right or what the consequences are until afterwards, maybe 10 years from now when everything has settled down and we can see what the results of this military action is, then we can speak w/ arrogance about how our opinion of the situation was the correct one

[shiv]

Corwin Ur wrong,u telling me that we need war to have a medicine breakthrow? Instead of focusing on building war machinery they should focuse on enviroment restauration,they should build more waste water filters..more e ficient hybrid vehicles,more nuclear powerplants,(cause alternative energy one lets face it that even if they don't poluate,their eficency its low)or other stuff,u know them-u smart guy!


And don't tell me anything about britain.cause the only reason i'm here r money..don't care about their history. But the fact they colonized so much i consire it a good thing,in most cases.

[monsoon 10]

In short so Shiv can get my point. War is the stick that pokes society into running when it becomes too fat and lazy.

[leerock89]

Actually war is a very crucial part of human development. Without war we couldn't have come as far as we have. Even stuff like medical breakthroughs are done during war time. Just because a lot of people are dying in the process of making this breakthrough doesn't make the breakthrough any less insignificant. If you want to look at it as equivalent exchange, human life lost for the breakthrough and as a result even more humans are saved later.

[monsoon 10]

Actually war is a very crucial part of human development. Without war we couldn't have come as far as we have. Even stuff like medical breakthroughs are done during war time. Just because a lot of people are dying in the process of making this breakthrough doesn't make the breakthrough any less insignificant. If you want to look at it as equivalent exchange, human life lost for the breakthrough and as a result even more humans are saved later.

Thank you for getting it.

[shiv]

Yeah..but novadays we dont need war!! just cause the one in the past had benneficts taht doesn't mean a contemporan one will have same. u know very good that shacking things up is asia is not a good ideea

[leerock89]

Yes but I don't think you understand yet. War is a very ugly thing. People's lives are destroyed, cities razed, civilizations lost. Whatever your reasons for not liking it are all legit. What you have to see is the other side of it. There's always a something big going on during a war and its not just the war itself. Behind the scenes of the war you have people scurring around trying to find different ways to stop it, find new ways help the injured from the war, think outside the box. Its a fact of our race that has been around for a very long time you just have to dig deeper to find it. I myself have said a couple times to bring on the next big war, let millions die and hopefully, if we don't completely obliterate each other, let us take another giant leap forward and allow the human race to go on stronger.

[shiv]

u r all sick!!
novadays war will involve nukes! dont worry..its imposible that in the next 50 years won't be a nuke war,,u will see my point then..so ur mutant grandchildrens

[leerock89]

Tisk tisk tisk!!! Did thy learnest nothing in thy study during school?? Have thy not seenest the great Full Metal Alchemist speaketh of Equivalent Exchange?? Dost thou not understand??

[shiv]

o.O..i'm stuned.wtf has full metal alchemist has anything to do whith that>??
alcehmy is a science this days and it does same thing as it did in ancient times.


"Alchemy in the Fullmetal Alchemist series, put simply, refers to a three-step process. The steps are Analysis (to understand the structure and properties of the substance that is about to be transmuted), Destruction/Decomposition (to break the substance down to its rudimentary properties), and Reconstruction/Recomposition (to rebuild the substance into another form or with different properties). The first step is crucial because if the substance that an alchemist intends to transmute is unknown, an alchemical reaction will not occur.

Performing alchemy requires the usage of an appropriate transmutation circle. The Elric brothers Edward and Alphonse (in the manga and Conqueror of Shamballa, as well as late in the anime), their alchemy teacher Izumi Curtis, Hohenheim, and Dante are capable of performing alchemy without using a transmutation circle of any sort as a result of seeing the Gate of Alchemy. In both the anime and manga, rather than being a method of manipulating forms via their accidents (the basis of historical alchemy, derived from Greek philosophy), it is essentially modern chemistry without a reaction medium."

This has nothing to do whith war!!

[monsoon 10]

u r all sick!!
novadays war will involve nukes! dont worry..its imposible that in the next 50 years won't be a nuke war,,u will see my point then..so ur mutant grandchildrens

Wow. For starters nobody uses nukes haphazardly so stop thinking "Omg nuclear missiles kill all." Second of all no war as of yet has even used nuclear technology as its main form of weaponry even though the technology has been improved on a lot.

[leerock89]

Ok your taking it to serious. I only mentioned the name cause the best idea from that anime series was equivalent exchange, which is what this world runs on. Which is why Monsoon Corwin and I are saying that even though it is bad, its evil, I freakn HATE war too, but even through all this pain and suffering, something good came from it, you just have to find it. AND all the world leaders know that if they started a nuclear war it would end the human race, and no amount of power is worth that.

[shiv]

Wow. For starters nobody uses nukes haphazardly so stop thinking "Omg nuclear missiles kill all." Second of all no war as of yet has even used nuclear technology as its main form of weaponry even though the technology has been improved on a lot.

yeah...just go then and piss off the irakiens..

[leerock89]

OK you want a very good example of war resulting in something good? Do you remember the dark ages in Europe?? You remember what was going on during that time?? I'll tell you, wars, massive amounts of death, despotism, and even a freaken plauge that wiped out of third of the population. And do you remember what happened after that?? The Renaissance. Thank you, thank you *bows left and right* I rest my case.

[shiv]

OK you want a very good example of war resulting in something good? Do you remember the dark ages in Europe?? You remember what was going on during that time?? I'll tell you, wars, massive amounts of death, despotism, and even a freaken plauge that wiped out of third of the population. And do you remember what happened after that?? The Renaissance. Thank you, thank you *bows left and right* I rest my case.

u read what i sayd earlier?i sayd i don't agree whith novadays wars..

[leerock89]

I myself have said a couple times to bring on the next big war, let millions die and hopefully, if we don't completely obliterate each other, let us take another giant leap forward and allow the human race to go on stronger.

And this is what I said about it.

[Corwin]

let's face it shiv, you're reading into these statements a little too much, you're being fairly close-minded, such as what I said, I did not say war was a good way to advance medical technology, I was pointing out that your previous statement about only weaponry becoming more advanced during war was wrong, and while none of us are advocating the war, it can be better, but we won't be able to sit back and objectively judge the results to see if it was good or bad until after it's been over for a few years, for example, WWII, while it was going on people complained about it all the time, look at the peace movement that it helped bring about, but now that it's over, just about everyone agrees that it was the best thing to do at the time, you act like we are talking in absolutes, but the only one doing that is you, I'd be more than happy if there was no war and I'm sure the other would be too, but that's not that way the world is running right now, and it's not like this is the only war going anyways, it just happens to be the most publicly recognized, I don't see you complaining about insurgents in African countries, who knows, they might be able to get their hands on some nukes from the former Soviet Union, but it's like Lee and Monsoon were saying, while nuclear war is a possibility it is highly unlikely, b/c of MAD, that's the reason no country has bothered to try invading any of it's neighbors on a large scale since the end of WWII, and we are unlikely to see nuclear war in our time, although with the advances in both alternative power and weapons technology, there is always the chance we will see some new form of weapon that is to this century what the nuclear attack on Hiroshima was to the last one, the thing about those kind of WMD's is that once used, they are unlikely to be used again, b/c everyone will make sure that they have the same or comparable weapons, and some day the human race will look back and see advancements such as these as necessary, our next technological advancement may create a new WMD, but like the first nuclear bomb, it may lead to our next mass production power source like the current nuclear power plants, maybe even without the resultant environmental issues this time around, the only thing we can really do right now is hold to our personal beliefs, while keeping an open mind, and working towards a better future

[shiv]

Ok ok..i was xpecting ur long coment! ur right!!!!!! happy,u convinced me.....




u dont wanna know what europeans think about the war in irak

[leerock89]

LOL! At any rate im waiting for FTL so I can get off this godforsaken place.

[Sun Tzu]

***WARNING HIGHLY OFFENSIVE***

i think we need to nuke the middle east... it would save the world alot of trouble

(sorry i have a very bitter taste in my mouth twards muslems)

Xantok you do realize that the group that attacked us was an extremist group. Its unfair to judge an entire religon based on the actions of a relatively small group.

Let me put it this way, all Christians are poligimist savages. Why? because of one branch of Christianity. Now you wouldn't accept this statement normally, so whats the different when you believe that all Muslims are out to kill you? Or, all black people are rapper gangster thugs, because I saw one on TV. Its just blind racism, and pure ignorance.

Besides we arent in Iraq because of we were attacked on 9/11, we are in there to
"liberate the Iraqi people" of their oil.

OK you want a very good example of war resulting in something good? Do you remember the dark ages in Europe?? You remember what was going on during that time?? I'll tell you, wars, massive amounts of death, despotism, and even a freaken plauge that wiped out of third of the population. And do you remember what happened after that?? The Renaissance. Thank you, thank you *bows left and right* I rest my case.

Uhhhh Leerock? you wrong buddy, dark ages was caused by war and the collapse of the Roman Empire, which during that day was the center of all information. With the loss of that, all systems of education, and any forward social progress was left behind in the greedy grab for power that came after. The only reason we were pulled out of the dark ages was because of the rebirth in interest in Italian art, and a revival of interest in education. None of this caused by war. In fact the Black Death's speedy movement through Europe was probably assisted by the frequent marches of armies up and down Europe.

If your looking for an example where senseless war caused the overall good I present to you the crusades. Europe was in the twighlight of the dark ages, pope sounds the call to war, everyone answers. With the return of the soldiers, there was a sharp influx in middle eastern art and science, which during that day was second only to the dregs of the old Roman empire, Byzantium.

Or even WW1 which paved the way for a dramatic increase in U.S power, the roaring 20's and the eventual oncoming of the Great Depression. Which gave rise to Unions and workers rights. In addition to the eventual oncoming of WW2 which yanked the U.S out of the great depression, and established us as one of the only remaining super powers in existence.

[leerock89]

Eh... that was just something vauge for people who don't know world history. Everyone knows the dark ages and everyone knows the renaissance, not everyone knows about all the things there were happening in between or that the fall of the roman empire caused it. And who cares about the Roman Empire, it was small fry compared to what was going on in asia.

[Sun Tzu]

Eh... that was just something vauge for people who don't know world history. Everyone knows the dark ages and everyone knows the renaissance, not everyone knows about all the things there were happening in between or that the fall of the roman empire caused it. And who cares about the Roman Empire, it was small fry compared to what was going on in asia.

"small fry"? for an entire millenia it was the center of all knowledge and cultural progression on earth. It gave rise to many sciences and beliefs we hold sacred today, christianity, art, philosophy. You name it, the Roman empire had their finger in it.

For 1000 years, its name was feared and spoken with only the slightest whispers throughout the world. It was so powerful that when its eventual collapse came around it annihilated all forward cultural progress for another 1000 years.

I thumb my nose at Asia's pitiful attempts at scientific progress, compared to Rome, they were nothing.

[Noodle72]

All this aside, I'm still curious why the OP (and a few others probably) think we were justified in invading Afghanistan because of an alleged attack by one terrorist group that may or may not have been stationed somewhere near the country.

[Sun Tzu]

All this aside, I'm still curious why the OP (and a few others probably) think we were justified in invading Afghanistan because of an alleged attack by one terrorist group that may or may not have been stationed somewhere near the country.

Afhanwhat?

[Noodle72]

Afhanwhat?

Precisely.

[Sun Tzu]

Precisely.

aye.

But seriously the invasion of Iraq was completely unjustified and a pointless incursion. No good has come of it, (Im speaking of this war specifically not all wars people) we were mislead and unjustly thrown into a country we didnt belong in. The reason? No one will probably know except for Bush and a few top aids. One thing is certain, we sure as hell dont belong there and I believe we should remove our troops in the speediest way possible.

[Noodle72]

But Sun! You're forgetting something, good sir!

What is our oil doing under their sand?

[Sun Tzu]

But Sun! You're forgetting something, good sir!

What is our oil doing under their sand?

rofl, we could have just asked em to move niceley while we took it... we didnt have to invade em =(

[analogZero]

jesus put it there to test your faith.

[Noodle72]

jesus put it there to test your faith.

Like dinosaur bones, and gravity?

[Sun Tzu]

Like dinosaur bones, and gravity?

I just realized that Oil is compressed ancient organic matter. That means that every person that believes in the creationist theory, and uses oil is a hypocrite.

[analogZero]

word up. jesus is a test machine. he came back to earth in the second coming as scantron testing, that's my theory.

[Sun Tzu]

word up. jesus is a test machine. he came back to earth in the second coming as scantron testing, that's my theory.

I always thought he was a zombie.

[analogZero]

I just realized that Oil is compressed ancient organic matter. That means that every person that believes in the creationist theory, and uses oil is a hypocrite.

bzzt, you just filled in two ovals. incorrect...error!

[Sun Tzu]

bzzt, you just filled in two ovals. incorrect...error!

ohh, logic hurts.

[Noodle72]

No one likes logic, silly. It's unfair due to its liberal bias.

[Corwin]

what I have to wonder though is, if 10 years from now we can look back and say our incursion into Iraq resulted in positive accomplishments, like the liberation of oppressed people, the improvement of the educational system, and the overall increase of modern technology, as well as the potential for women's rights over there, are we still going to sit back and say that it was a bad move to go there? that we were unjustified in attempting to help an indigenous people better their lives? yes, our current actions there might not be the most noble or the most beneficial to all parties involved, but as I said before, we can not know the true ramifications until time has passed and the results have become clear. For all we know, in 10-20 years the US "liberation" of Iraq may cause us to be hailed as saviors of those people, allowing them to get up to speed w/ what the rest of the world considers human rights standards, so that women can walk the streets w/ their heads uncovered w/o fear of abuse, so that the honor killings can stop, and no doubt countless other things that we would deem savage and atrocious, now that is not to say that I'm impugning their religion, it is their choice, and their belief, but I'm not a fan of many of it's tenets, even Christianity has evolved a little over the centuries, and since much of Iraq's and many of the middle eastern countries policies revolve around their religious tenets, maybe this will help to bring those beliefs into the 21st century, of course this is all a best case scenario, it could just as easily go the other way and embroil us all in another world war begun w/ terrorism and influenced by indignation over US actions, resulting in MAD, but no one will know until the time has passed and we can be truly objective in looking at the situation

[Noodle72]

...countless other things that we would deem savage and atrocious...

This is what we call cultural dissonance. It doesn't matter what we think. It's not our country or culture.

If we stay in Iraq 10-20 more years to see if we accomplish anything good, it'll probably be too late. That will have been a metric crap-ton of scrilla spent, and lives lost. I'm sorry, but using the economy of an entire country (no matter how evil it may be) and using lives as a sort of currency to make it easier for a woman to take a jog down the street to the standards of a different culture than her own does not seem like a good trade off. For any parties involved in this equation.

[AyumiBee]

I think war is wrong, just remember Europe and the two world wars. Aushwitz ect.
I think USA shouldn't be involved in Iraq. Or for example USA dont like Russia, and they want to built something in Hungary what can be offensive to Russia (Hungary is not that far away from Russia) just let alone my country, don't involve us!Russians left my country when i borned in 1989. We had enough we don't want war, in the first WW we lost 3/4 of our country (Trianon)... And then germans came and russians...

Eh... that was just something vauge for people who don't know world history. Everyone knows the dark ages and everyone knows the renaissance, not everyone knows about all the things there were happening in between or that the fall of the roman empire caused it. And who cares about the Roman Empire, it was small fry compared to what was going on in asia.

The Roman Empire falled apart cuz there wasn't a charismatic leader who managed to rule it. And it fall into two parts. And the christianity, you know Lion Richard and the crusades actually the 9th -or i dont know which one there was a lot- was the children's crusade-> half of them were sold before they reached the half of the journey. Christians want to spread their relegion just as Muslims and the result? war! why can't we live in peace? well maybe it would be boring....

[Corwin]

I think you misunderstood me Noodle, I wasn't trying to justify our stay there b/c of their religious beliefs and culture, or saying that we should be there for even 1 more year, I was saying that while I do not agree w/ some of their beliefs and customs it is their religion, and their choice, and that 10-20 years from now, we would see things differently, not that we should be there another 10-20 years to enforce and view those changes

[Ariya]

I'm not a supporter of the war, but I have to admit, having them fight over in Iraq is a helluva lot better than them fighting here.

[shiv]

Don't argue whith corwin...he thinks so much,,,i'm afrait to say something cause i know i will get a 1 page reply text...my eye gonna bleed again.

[strike7785]

Well I appreciate everyones thoughts, but to me Im tired of fighting for a country that is not willing to help themselves. I've been to Iraq twice and Im going back in 2010. Im tired of this war!!! Its pointless. We had a reason to invade Afghanistan but not Iraq. Ill be glad when Bush gets out of office, but I fear we will be there for years to come because of Bush's selfish reasons. Also if we are going to fight a war we need to get rid of the BS of being nice to people. Screw the geniva convention if I see an enemy Im going to kill him before he does the same to me. SHoot first then ask questions later. If we keep up this nice attiitude crap we are going to be destroyed!!

[Koopaking]

Hey everybody we ARE NOT AT WAR WITH IRAQ, Congress never declared war, they only call it the "war" in Iraq because it sounds more patriotic than the Iraq "conflict", the United States has only been in 5 actual wars in its history. This is just like the Vietnam "Conflict" in basically every aspect and in the end the USA is just poking its nose into affairs it ought to keep itself out of and if we don't stop we will get many people killed in Iraq without accomplishing anything significant, just like in Vietnam.

[Noodle72]

Hey everybody we ARE NOT AT WAR WITH IRAQ, Congress never declared war, they only call it the "war" in Iraq because it sounds more patriotic than the Iraq "conflict", the United States has only been in 5 actual wars in its history. This is just like the Vietnam "Conflict" in basically every aspect and in the end the USA is just poking its nose into affairs it ought to keep itself out of and if we don't stop we will get many people killed in Iraq without accomplishing anything significant, just like in Vietnam.

I figured we called Vietnam a conflict because we got our assess whooped. xD

[leerock89]

"small fry"? for an entire millenia it was the center of all knowledge and cultural progression on earth. It gave rise to many sciences and beliefs we hold sacred today, christianity, art, philosophy. You name it, the Roman empire had their finger in it.

For 1000 years, its name was feared and spoken with only the slightest whispers throughout the world. It was so powerful that when its eventual collapse came around it annihilated all forward cultural progress for another 1000 years.

I thumb my nose at Asia's pitiful attempts at scientific progress, compared to Rome, they were nothing.

Your kidding me right?? Ok spend some time, maybe a year or so, and study some real asain history ok? Not the bullshit you find in America, but go there and learn yourself. That might be asking for much but when you learn the FACTS then your opinion will change.

[Sun Tzu]

Your kidding me right?? Ok spend some time, maybe a year or so, and study some real asain history ok? Not the bullshit you find in America, but go there and learn yourself. That might be asking for much but when you learn the FACTS then your opinion will change.

Its all in perspective. Im not stating that Asia's contribution is minute, its just not as large as that of Rome. Think of it this way, a S.U.V is immense compared to a compact car, but its nothing when compared to the monster truck that is Rome. Granted Asia contributed greatly to modern culture and ideas, but the collapse of the Han dynasty didn't plunge an entire continent into 1000 years of barbarism and stagnation.

Furthermore, im referring to the periods from 500 B.C- 500 A.D, Rome accomplished much more in a shorter amount of time than the entire continent of Asia, specifically China. Now im not saying that Asia's contributions arent comparable to Rome,(because eventually they did accomplish much more than Rome could have) Im only stating that for 1000 years Rome had the largest impact on modern thinking than anything the world has ever seen.

Its apples to oranges, they are both fruit, but they can never truly be compared because they influenced each other.

[leerock89]

Puh-leeezzee!! The stuff your talking about were idea's already discovered elsewhere. Rome just adopted it, slapped on an official seal and said they made it. They did that to everything they got their hands on. Come on now, only the winners write the history and at that time rome was the winner. Aaahhh if only alexandria wasn't burned down. Think of how much farther we would be if it were still around.

[Sun Tzu]

Puh-leeezzee!! The stuff your talking about were idea's already discovered elsewhere. Rome just adopted it, slapped on an official seal and said they made it. They did that to everything they got their hands on. Come on now, only the winners write the history and at that time rome was the winner. Aaahhh if only alexandria wasn't burned down. Think of how much farther we would be if it were still around.

Precisely man, only the winners.

But honestly we got so freaking offtopic, what were we talking about?

[leerock89]

Well then if you know what Im talking about and I still proudly say, rome was small fry. Well maybe not that small, but small....really tiny....a spec in the cosmic comedy known as life.

[Sun Tzu]

Well then if you know what Im talking about and I still proudly say, rome was small fry. Well maybe not that small, but small....really tiny....a spec in the cosmic comedy known as life.

Is anything ever really that big? Is all that we accomplish here on earth just a meaningless spiral towards our inevitable doom? Will anyone listen? Anyone appreciate what we do?

[leerock89]

Thats why I keep on sayin some real smart genius needs to discover a ftl drive so we can leave this dam planet!!!!!!

[Sun Tzu]

Ive got a time capsule in my back yard, but that wont stop the earth from spinning into the sun >.<

We are all doomed!!! Doomed I say!! DOOOMED!!

http://www.workhabit.org/files/fixd.jpg

[Noodle72]

Its apples to oranges, they are both fruit, but they can never truly be compared because they influenced each other.

You also can't rhyme the word orange. True story.

[leerock89]

Oi this whole galaxy is being sucked into that huge black hole in the center and the milky way is going to be a gonner eventually. But we are getting way off topic here. Go Go Go war in iraq!! Keep on wasting my tax dollars and killing american soliders.

[Sun Tzu]

Oi this whole galaxy is being sucked into that huge black hole in the center and the milky way is going to be a gonner eventually. But we are getting way off topic here. Go Go Go war in iraq!! Keep on wasting my tax dollars and killing american soliders.

dont worry....

http://img.4chan.org/b/src/1210565016750.jpg

He will block the hole

[Noodle72]

Oi this whole galaxy is being sucked into that huge black hole in the center and the milky way is going to be a gonner eventually. But we are getting way off topic here. Go Go Go war in iraq!! Keep on wasting my tax dollars and killing american soliders.

In the time it will take for us to get sucked into that black hole, the earth could be created and destroyed approximately 300,015 times. We are 30,000 light years away from it, after all.

But anyway, back to the topic... Hooray war!

[Aikes]

What is my opinion..... I usually try to dodge anything involving politics or religion simply because these are such emotional topics based on so little reality.

I will step in the mud here for a change and see if I can just give my point of view without catching flak.

How do I see the war..... I see it as horrible, destructive, and an economic vacuum that is required so long as we are unwilling to secure our national borders. I also think think that anyone that attacks our civilians should be a target and that any nation that supports or trains those bannerless troops of murder should also be our target. The lesson here is.... let the sleeping tiger sleep stupids. Pick on me if you must but pick on my family and I will not be in a forgiving state of mind for a long time... so to speak.

Why? Why is this the way it is?There are a collection of parts that create this whole so far as I see it and I hope you will read them all before you toss your monitor out the window cursing my name....

Because one thing that the United Stated provided much of the world was freedom to live as you please and one right U.S. citizens have even now that is legislated almost nowhere else is the freedom of speech.... and these freedoms kill totalitarianism which has been the basis for all governments that subjugate their people.

Because people are greedy, namely headless corporations and businesses, and they seek to use slave and low-wage labor to bleed the U.S. dry by manufacturing outside the U.S. and then shipping back to the states to sell to Americans at a premium. This requires open borders...not for immigration.. but for easily moving products and funds.

Because people are jealous and we are fortunate to be a nation existing on a nation with so many untouched natural resources that we are wealthy from birth. If we choose, we can make more money in a day bumming on a street corner than some people of the world will see in a years time working.

Because the Federal Reserve and the international banking conglomerates hope to eventually unite the U.S., Canada, and at least Mexico under a combined economy and currency called the Amero.... as was done with Europe. In order to do that, you need open borders and you need to toss the economies of the U.S. and Canada down the toilet to match economic value of these areas to some degree.

It stands to reason that if your money is leaving your nation faster than you can print it then you are emptying your pockets and everything will go up in price. Then to make matter worse we barrow money from China and give out tax rebates that will be spent immediately in Wal-mart and at gas stations.... more money lost to other nations.

Our economy is not healthy because we have allowed the corporations to move manufacturing outside of our nation. We consume more than we produce. This hasn't been stopped because the corporations fund both major political parties.

So long as the corporations are allowed to control our politics, the border will remain open, the wars won't stop, and if they do watch out for who walks across Texas with ill intent next year.

This whole war and border thing isn't about race. They want us to think that. They want us to think it is about religion too and to some degree it is but we are all just pawns in a game of economics.

Several nations of uneducated people raised only with the words of hate from the people they admire and trust and living in the armpit of the world with clean water and toilet paper being a real luxury it isn't hard to guess they are already conditioned my age 16 to be something we with so much luxury can only fear or hate.

What you grow up and experience at a young age shapes your core. There has been a lot of hate in that part of the world for a very long time and it is religious based. We are not prepared to fight such a battle. we are too compassionate and we have too much optimism for our fellow man.

Most people in the United States wish only the best for others. We better start wishing the best for ourselves and secure our way of life within our own nation before we try to correct religious behavior and fascism in the world. Yes, fascism even comes into play here.... for Saddam's Uncle was friendly with Adolf's regime... so even that cancer hasn't completely left us yet and still fosters in Russia.

What do I think of the war.....

I think a lot of things. I also know that the war and everything around it is a distraction from the things going on within the United states.... like the Bush-Columbia free trade agreement and the Mexico-to-Canada freeway that is being pushed. The war is also a distraction to the enemies of our nation. So long as they fight there, they don't seem to come here to us.

I hope it will all end soon. I hope the deaths will stop. I truly wish all religion would be banned for a period of at least 100 years so that I could live a happy peaceful life until I was gone.

...crap..... well that won't happen so I will just go watch more anime and try to avoid looking at the three stooges our corporate bodies have funded into electoral status running for (hard to even say this) ..Presi....dent... ./sigh

Boy I am going to regret posting this I am sure.... but don't get so worked up over it. I would much rather live in a world of debate over anime than trying to understand economic and world politics because at least with anime.... I can make a difference by just watching something different.

I am pretty much stuck living with all the asshats of the world as another sheep being herded by corporate jerks to be fleeced by big oil, middle men, speculators, and political ambition.

The United States isn't perfect but its people have good intention and have as much control over what its corporations do as the man on the moon.

Kids are awesome. Take them before they know what religion is, before they know what politics are, before they know that race, height, weight, or economic standing mean anything. Put them all in a room and they play. Thats all. They just play.

Sounds like a wonderful way to live doesn't it?

[Koopaking]

the stupid thing about war and conflict is that we suddenly start coming up with all kinds of new inventions to blow up the bad guys when we could use people inventing stuff like new fuel and a cure for cancer

[Noodle72]

Such negative nancies...

You all realize we don't have to be sheep, right? That we don't have to take it? You also realize that slowly but surely we're loosing all the rights and freedoms that we think we're fighting to protect?

We could all just ignore it. That works. I believe ostriches and emus do something similar. They stick their heads in the ground; sort of a see no evil thing. Why ignore it though? It's not going away.

For anyone out there who has seen "Network" you may be with me when I say, "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it!"

[Koopaking]

Or how about a coup d'etat?

[archangle]

the US went to war b/c of 9/11 in Afghanistan right then US went to Iraq....afghanistan is where all the "bad" people are suppose to be right then why is this true:
Iraq # of troops 150 thousand
Afghanistan # of troops 60 thousand with 20 thousand only patrol police

why does iraq has more troops there than afghanistan who is the one that made 9/11 happen......afghanistan right then why are we in iraq when saddam is dead

US left afghanistan war unfinished and started another war in iraq wat is this????!!!!

Looks like oil is a very valuable thing for US since US started 2 wars because of it

[Sun Tzu]

Aikes I can understand your reluctance to trust anything government, perhaps though if you are tired of how things are going now then its time for change. Run for your local office, work your way up from there. If people truly care about making a difference then they will place themself in a position where they actually can make a change.

But the feeling of insignificance comes from deep within. One person is not able to make a sudden change in the world without a massive amount of work because there are so many people wanting to impose their own ideas. We live in a world where everything is related to our choice, what we want for dinner, what we want our house to look like, our job. Everything, but when we look beyond and see something we can't effect then we begin to feel frustrated and angry. We view that group as evil, or under the control of another evil group, even though we have absolutely no evidence to support our claims.

I encourage all of you, form a group and march on Washington, run for your local office, achieve a position where you are able to actually effect the world beyond your front door. If you dont become active, then you are merely disgruntled, and nothing changes.

[Noodle72]

You know, I've been wanting to go back to D.C. Anyone down for a protest? I don't mean a sissy protest of the war. I mean one of everything that's going on right now. All the injustices, and horrifying shenanigans that are and have been taking place. No one has done or said anything about it for too long.

If not a protest something can be organized. Sun and I have been for years trying to figure something out (though we've put way more effort into other things such as video games xD). We have the internet as a form of media, and potentially endless amounts of people. ROAR!

Let's get off our asses.

[strike7785]

Ill tell you why we are in Iraq still its all about the damn oil. Bush and chenny both are making millions off of it.

[kakashizzz]

iraq war=GAY and shiv r u a boy or girl

[strike7785]

Shiv is a boy